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Post by Yankel on Sept 29, 2005 0:04:05 GMT -5
Just to counter CooCooCachoo's yeshiva image..
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Post by CooCooCachoo on Sept 29, 2005 0:08:21 GMT -5
To be perfectly honest, just a few years ago, I knew next to nothing about the difference between Jews and Gentiles appearance-wise. Heck, I didn't know jack about Jews to begin with. I just as soon assumed people like Spielberg, Woody Allen, Sean Penn, Matthew Broderick were all just regular run-of-the-mill WASP's. Had no idea that there was even a distinction between Jewish-descended people and indigenous European-descended people. So, gasp! Could it be a Zionist conspiracy at work?! Find out next time, on David Duke! The Jewish religion has a fair amount of diversity, although it is primarily centered around a very old ethnicity. Would you say Lenny Kravitz looks Jewish? ...Because his father is.
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Post by Mike the Jedi on Sept 29, 2005 0:10:05 GMT -5
Well, I meant typical white Ashkenazis.
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Post by CooCooCachoo on Sept 29, 2005 0:14:05 GMT -5
Even on these, there are some that would be less at risk. I think these three might find a way to pass.
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Post by Mike the Jedi on Sept 29, 2005 0:15:33 GMT -5
The kid in the back with the backwards-facing baseball cap looks kinda Arab.
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Post by Educate Me on Sept 29, 2005 0:16:34 GMT -5
I was quite shocked the first time I realized that jews are really a small group and not very widespread.
Most of the world is jewish-empty, and almost all of them are in Israel and 5 or 6 more places (USA, France, Former Soviet Union, Argentina, Canada), and in those countries they are mostly centered around only one place like New York or Buenos Aires.
For most of the world they are a very exotic bunch.
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Post by CooCooCachoo on Sept 29, 2005 0:19:01 GMT -5
I was quite shocked the first time I realized that jews are really a small group and not very widespread. Most of the world is jewish-empty, and almost all of them are in Israel and 5 or 6 more places (USA, France, Former Soviet Union, Argentina, Canada), and in those countries they are mostly centered around only one place like New York or Buenos Aires. For most of the world they are a very exotic bunch. They spark a lot of curiousity, fascination, and unfortunately hysteria.
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Post by Yankel on Sept 29, 2005 0:23:42 GMT -5
Could they pass? What about... Sasha Baron-Cohen? Jerry Seinfeld? Idan Raichel? How about these random Chareidim? Him? This guy? What about this guy? What do you think? We could go on like this for a very long time. Let's just agree to disagree. Please.
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Post by Mike the Jedi on Sept 29, 2005 0:26:53 GMT -5
The closer to the original Levantine type, the harder it would be to pass. That's why I think the mostly brunet and narrow-faced people you posted would be harder pressed to pass than their fairer, more Cromagnoid brethren. Gimme a sec to collect my thoughts. How about these random Chareidim? Him? I think these people could pass. The others, not so sure. Maybe Jerry could pass for Dinaric.
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Post by CooCooCachoo on Sept 29, 2005 0:32:48 GMT -5
Well I'm not arguing there are people who look Semetic, and couldn't pass for German. ...I'm just saying that there were plenty who could, and did.
Maybe it's similar to Mexicans. Mestizo means "mixed" or "mixed race" in Spanish. But these days it pretty much conjures up images of Amerindians. There are Mexicans that you would never guess are Mexican. And there are plenty that you would have a hard time saying for certain. And then there are the Mexicans who you definitely are sure that are Mexican, until you actually find out they're Nicaraguan.
Ashekenazi had lived in Europe for hundreds of years. Genetic studies revealed that most have the Jewish Y Chromosome marker, but almost all have European mitochondrial DNA. They're a mix of European and Semetic, with it sometimes being very heavy on the European percentages.
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Post by Yankel on Sept 29, 2005 0:34:45 GMT -5
Hah! I knew someone would take the bait! All three of those men are, for all intents and purposes, Arab-Jews. The first two are both famous Israeli "Mizrahi" (Middle Eastern Jewish music) singers. The blue-eyed guy is a famous "Arab" actor. And Seinfeld is half-Syrian.
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Post by Mike the Jedi on Sept 29, 2005 0:41:05 GMT -5
Hah! I knew someone would take the bait! All three of those men are, for all intents and purposes, Arab-Jews. The first two are both famous Israeli "Mizrahi" (Middle Eastern Jewish music) singers. The blue-eyed guy is a famous "Arab" actor. And Seinfeld is half-Syrian. Yeah, but that's not a bad thing, is it? All that means is there are some Middle Easteners who could pass for Germans if they were forced to. And Syria's president is so white he makes some Europeans look black.
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Post by Yankel on Sept 29, 2005 0:43:15 GMT -5
In case anyone is curious... Numbers 1, 3, 5, 6 and 7 are "Arab-Jews" (Mizrahim). The others are Ashkenazi.
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Post by Mike the Jedi on Sept 29, 2005 0:46:17 GMT -5
I could never see this guy passing for German, though:
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Post by Yankel on Sept 29, 2005 0:58:48 GMT -5
Yeah, but that's not a bad thing, is it? All that means is there are some Middle Easteners who could pass for Germans if they were forced to. Well, I think the father and son Israeli musicians look Middle Eastern. The point is, though, that some people see light features on Jews and assume that it's due to admixture. Case in point: CooCooCachoo saw the back of one yeshiva student's head and decided he could pass as German. The reality is that Jews have had these features from day one. I'm not denying admixture, however. Genetically speaking, it's already been detremined that Ashkenazim are 50% European, and 50% Middle Eastern. And I'm talking about autosomal research, not Y-chromosome or MtDNA (which collectively comprise a whopping 2% of our gene pool) analyses.
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