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Post by Human on Feb 10, 2005 19:47:28 GMT -5
the best thing to happen to the World?
a 1st World Sub Saharan Africa.
yeah, rich literate Black people. it would rise the self esteem of Blacks everywhere. it would make the whole World feel better and more unequal.
can you imagine how nice a sub saharan Black scientist being awarded the Nobel of Medicine or something? nice cars manufactured by highly advanced industrial plants in Mozambique or Senegal? new medication developed by Black doctors to cure tropical diseases? wealthy Black tourists around the World with the photograh machines taking pictures, like we are used to the rich Japanese?
the best thing to happen in this century would be the end of poverty and illiteracy, among other things, in sub saharan Africa.
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Post by Human on Feb 10, 2005 19:48:09 GMT -5
sorry it would make the world feel LESS unequal
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Post by BioMan on Feb 11, 2005 15:34:45 GMT -5
sorry for the long post but I really want you to read so I can prove my point
You might be a smart black with an IQ 30 points above normal. But the same cant be said to everyone else.
And there is no such thing as a crime gene that guarantees you will commit a crime, there are however genetically linked factors that will make blacks much more susceptible to crime. That includes high testosterone which leads to aggressiveness, violence and likelihood of rape as well as low IQ which leads to making poor decisions or failing to get a job which leads to crime. However I would like to make one point, in things like money scamming and political corruption as well as organized crime Asians and Whites have much higher rates in crimes like these.
Another point that should be made is that swimming has little to do with muscle strength(or very little). Fat helps you stay buoyant, muscle helps you sink, and if you look at the long long swimming distance records women actually beat men because they have higher levels of fat(thanks to estrogen) that’s also one reason why you rarely see black swimmers in the Olympics since blacks have the lowest fat distribution and instead have larger muscle mass. Car racing really doesn’t have much to do with muscular strength and being aggressive in a sport like car racing could get you killed. Hockey happens to be a sport in which you move around in a field that has little friction hence you wont need strong legs to constantly thrust yourself. You do however see Africans dominate in sports that require lots of strength and endurance. Sprinting, Jumping, Marathon etc.
About the nutrition thing, there were various tests done amongst parents who adopted children. Even when blacks were adopted into well to do white families they still averaged lower Iqs and higher testosterone levels. Another test was done in Canadian schools. The teachers said that amongst pre schoolers the Asian kids seemed the nicest, least aggressive while the opposite was true for black kids. Whites in the middle. Even asian kids who were starving at childhood still grew up to score above the black or white normal.
And do you know about the obesity problem in America? African Americans arnt as starved as you think they are. In fact theres a lot of cases amongst them. It surely isn’t a nutrition issue that lowers African American averages. Theres more concern with dieting then starvation amongst African Americans.
If your wondering what the average African Americans IQ is its 85. Average Sub Saharan IQ is 70(they are starved so their IQ is lower however they still wont average an 85 when well fed because they didnt have as much mixing as african americans) You can find it in several OFFICIAL AND CREDITED TESTS. You can also find it in published books like the G-factor, Bell Curve or in studies by people like Lynn and Rushton.
One thing your right though is about the child development. But then again, child development also has genetic links. Smart Parents make smart decisions for their children(which makes them more successful). Smart Parents are more likely to get good jobs(which means better education and food). Smart parents are better at taking care of children then less intelligent ones. You hear of success stories of immigrants who came to the US with no knowledge of English or American culture nor college degrees.
yet you see lots of African Americans who know english+American culture yet they fail to get jobs and actually lose to immigrants. The average African American isnt lazy, its just that they cant compete with higher IQ averages, races who are better at working together, races with high verbal or visuospatial IQs etc.
Look at the statistics, the average income in 1997 was $25,050 for blacks $38,972 for whites $45,249 for asians.
you might say people are biased amongst blacks so they arnt as successful. But your wrong, in fact the most disadvantaged race happens to be Asian. Affirmative action for example awards extra points in school tests to blacks while penalizes asians for being asians. Affirmative action also requires asians to have higher credentials then the other races just to get an equal job. Asians are also payed the least in comparable occupations. Yet Asians average the highest income because they are the most likely to get jobs in science fields(asians have the highest visuospatial IQ which is great for science). Jews are the masters in Verbal IQ(which gives them an advantage in highpaying lawyer and buisness men jobs) A more surprising fact is that this income is mostly by first generation asians(who came to the US not knowing english nor possessing college degree). If you only counted the income of second, third etc generation asians then the income would be much much higher(Higher IQ with the advantage of knowing English and American culture). Most African Americans however are not first generation nor immigrants. They also know the English language. Yet they still lose. The reason is obvious and I wont have to repeat it. You cant blame it on culture alone since culture is not the culprit
Another fact is the average cranial and neuron capacity amongst races
Cranial capacity Blacks: 1,267 Whites: 1,347 Asians: 1,364
Cortical neurons (millions) Blacks: 13,185 Whites: 13,665 Asians: 13,767
This is surprising because Blacks should average the largest cranial capacity and cortical neuron numbers because they are the tallest and heaviest amongst american averages. Asians should average the least due to shorter heights and smaller mass that needs to be controlled, but the opposite is true. And when a African and Asian of equal height are measured for neuro and capacity the asian far exceeds the black in those 2 categories. Wheras the black beats the asian in testosterone and muscle mass. Oh yes and amongst the 3 races black average the densest bones as well(another reason why they have more trouble winning in swimming competitions)
Also read the book : The Bell Curve. It doesn’t talk much about race(only a few pages) but it does show that East Asian countries average Iqs in the hundreds while sub-Saharan African nations average in the 70s 60s. Its true theres famine in Africa but then there are other factors as well. South Korea 50-40 years ago had an economy similar to 3rd world countries in Africa(perhaps even poorer) today South Korea enjoys a total national GDP exceeding 850 billion(which is probably greater than all of Sub Saharan Africa combined) with the largest internet representation as well as average income being in the 5 digit range. Mind you South Korea is a tiny tiny country about the size of Virginia.
And you shouldn’t blame culture or social life on the IQ differences. Even when blacks are raised in white families they still grow up to average smaller cranial capacity, neuron level, higher testosterone etc(Asian children even with white parents still averaged the highest). They still hit puberty 2 years earlier than Asians and average larger penis size. And way to go generalizing smart people. Can you genetically prove that smart people are servants with not social lives?. I can prove that blacks have lower IQ on average with scientific evidence but can you do the same for smart people?
Its not food or culture. Its genetics, the truth hurts but you cant deny it either.
And NEVER NEVER trust online IQ tests, my scores were all over the place. One test scored me in the 150s. Another scored me in the 110s. And you’re a smart black good for you, but remember we’re not talking about you only. We’re talking about the entire race in general. Take 2 groups of people one with an average IQ of 85 the other with an average IQ of 110. Whos more likely to produce a person with an IQ of 140? Id probably choose the second group.
And crime does have things to do with race. True Asians do commit crimes like in your example. But I can also list examples of blacks doing the same. In fact I can list many many more. Look at the US crime statistics and see how race does seem to play a role in crime. You can also compare east asian countries to black countries and see that race even plays a role their. You can even compare Blacks in Britain with Blacks in Germany to see if race plays a role there. It plays a role everywhere because some races are just more likely to commit crimes.
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Post by Human on Feb 11, 2005 16:21:19 GMT -5
this whole argumentation presented by you may look scientific and reasonable. however science is always changing. we can not take anything for granted. even time proved to be not absolute. what if in centuries ahead all this turns out to be bulshit? you have to remember you are dealing with humans, and your whole approach may lead to injustices and much suffering. be more suspicious than ever about this argumentation, even if you believe. one has to be doubtful all the time to learn, more so in this delicate subject.
this whole thing looks like a death penalty case when later it is discovered that the condemned had no guilty at all, i mean, the harsh actions were already done and there was no way back.
can you imagine what the intermediate Ancient Egyptians would have thought when looking at the pure blond Scandinanvias or pure British causasoids of their time and tried to rationalized about their differences in terms of civilizations?
would they imagine also that their slaves at that time, the hebrews, would play after such an incredibly important whole in the history of mankind in the thousands of years ahead that were to come? ?
you may crossing any moral boundary, in the name of science, and by doing so justify all sorts of violence and cruelty.
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Post by visigodo on Feb 11, 2005 16:51:01 GMT -5
Bioman, as a self professed man of science I think you need a more balanced approach to your arguments. There are many people in the academic research field that refute your claims. My suggestion is try reading “The Mismeasure of Man” by Stephen Jay Gould for starters. By the way, the information you keep espousing is based on the Behavioral & Social Sciences, (Which by its very nature is almost completely all BS to be honest with you) rather than hard sciences. (This is why I have little respect for psychologist, and sociologists as apposed to physicist, or mathematicians) Here’s some literature from a reasonable individual, I appreciate his less rhetoric tone and more balanced view on this subject: www.wjh.harvard.edu/~cfc/Chabris1998a.html
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Post by BioMan on Feb 11, 2005 16:53:05 GMT -5
Perhaps this will all change 20,000 years from now, perhaps we humans wont even be around then, perhaps we evolve into a super race or a failure race. Whatever happens doesn’t matter since we arnt living in the future right now. Something that’s proven right now doesn’t make it false in the future. If I say that grass is green right now, does that mean its false in the year 234908234 AD where grass is purple? The concept of race still exists, some breeds of dogs are stronger than others, some breeds are smarter, some are more loyal. In the end however they are all dogs yet they are all very different. Poodles are not like German Shepherds. Chihuahuas are not like bull dogs. These breeds are distinctly different from a physical and even mental aspect. You cant deny it either. Well the same is true for humanity and race.
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Post by Human on Feb 11, 2005 16:57:36 GMT -5
it is not what will happen in the future. it is that in the future (not so distant) what we think now may be proven to be entirely wrong...
some 5 centuries ago no one could question the Earth was the center of the universe!
Galileo Galilei was sentenced because he believed it was not. And the Catholic Church only admitted it was a mistake her behaviour towards Galileo Galilei last century.
As a man of 'science' (but lacking any philosophical approach, sure), Im sure you know about what this Italian suffered because for thousands of years people thought the wrong thing and he chose the right way.
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Post by BioMan on Feb 11, 2005 16:58:35 GMT -5
oh and the only above normal IQ amongst the hebrews are the Ashkenazim jews who came to the US. They have lower visuospatial IQ than even whites yet they have incredibly high verbal IQ(which is why they are over-represented in things like law and politics). East Asians are the opposite, they have incredible high visuospatial IQ and verbal IQs lower than whites.
Blacks however are unfortunate because they have neither the verbal of the Ashkenazim jews nor the Visuospatial of East Asians nor the jack of all trades of whites. They lose in all categories.
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Post by Human on Feb 11, 2005 17:01:10 GMT -5
i mean if whites are so much different then (im white by the way; are you sure you are one?), why did not civilization started in Europe and fully developed there? why do Europeans use semitic alphabet and have morally doctrined on semitic beliefs? ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png)
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Post by Melnorme on Feb 11, 2005 17:04:11 GMT -5
They lose in all categories. Hmm, not exactly. What about natural charisma?
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Post by Human on Feb 11, 2005 17:04:59 GMT -5
read Tacitus and youll see the deplorable situation the Germans were only 2000 years ago. they had no writing. they used to practice human sacrifices, as well as the celts. they were savage blond naked people.... as well as the british and scandinavians.
youre writing because some semitic people had the brilliant idea to invent alphabet.
your ancestors higher morality were given by the jews, another non european people (the origins of this people i mean).
open your mind...
and try to see the different aspects of history and civilization.
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Kame
Full Member
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Posts: 122
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Post by Kame on Feb 11, 2005 17:06:47 GMT -5
Give me links. Otherwise you sound like a stormfronter throwing out psuedo-scientific assumptions. Yeah, but anyone (or race with you) with high testerone would be perfect for that occupation. It's thrilling and fast-paced. Give me sources. Stop spewing out "studies" with no link back-up, makes you look really un-scientific. Atleast give me a biased source like "Vdare.com". Something. Confucian ethic + Good families= nice kids. Source. You still have no proven the correlation between intelligence and race. Most "racial" differences are on the surface, and race affinity does not neccesarily correlate with phenotype. Africans are closer to Europeans than melanesians. Explain the suppossed "average" 10 point IQ difference if asians only have a few more neurons than whites. Looks fishy to me. Give me sources. Explain Samoans, Tongans and Mongolians. Dude, populations "within" populations differ greatly. Not many scientists still go by the traditional "three race" paradigm. Human variation is more complex than that. Like I said before you sound to me like your digging up old "scientific racist" arguments that have long been debunked. Yes, and also you expect me to take conclusions of the imfamously biased and probably debunked studies on race with "scientists" such as lynn and Rushton? Are you serious? They are about as credible as White Nationalism is a viable ideology. Wow, your one to talk about generalizing. Yeah, your right intelligence might be genetically related, but it's not based upon how you look. www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=2156625news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1377781.stmAnto-social disorders and violent crime is well documented in japan and literature concerning certain disorders in Japan like hikkomori. Japanese can be some of the most cruel, violent offenders you have ever seen. I'm talking about crimes that would do charles manson proud. LOL, Japan is the groping capital of the world. Explain the relatively low-crime rate in Botswana and Ghana. I'll give you my explanation. It's like the overall low-crime rate in other countries, because of culture and prevailing ethical systems as well as economic conditions. In botswana, they have a thing there called "botho" which means courtesy, hospitality and good manners, a sort of african version of confucianism. People visiting ghana say ghanaians are some of the warmest, nicest people in the world. blankbluesky.com/travel/ghana/And you talk about the relatively low acheive of black americans. Except one part of that equation .You forget that black women in the US and UK are surpassing their male (black and white) counterparts in academics and earnings. news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2002/race/women_and_society.stmI'll say it again, race has absolutely nothing to do with crime. The cultures of blacks and asians for the most part, are completely different. Also asian and white societies can be prone to alot of anti-social disorders due to certain pressures and conditions. People are just people. See them for the individuals that they are and move on in life. Do not generalize based off of statistics which do not include all of the contributing factors.
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Post by visigodo on Feb 11, 2005 17:09:53 GMT -5
Bioman,
Sorry to go after you man, but the stuff you are writing about is considered bull shit among the elite in academic circles.
P.S. I'm white european before u start on me.
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Post by eufrenio on Feb 11, 2005 17:26:50 GMT -5
You're saying this like it's a fact, but I'm not sure that it is. I think it's been proven for African-Americans vs. European-Americans, but not for 'Negroes' in general. Good point, Mel! It would be interesting to test other Europeans and proper African populations; say, Bulgarians and Togolese!
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Post by eufrenio on Feb 11, 2005 17:38:46 GMT -5
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