How spanish are south/central americans

[kingpin]

hmmmmm.

I got in this argument with this girl at school today after my classics class (Roman history) because she claimed she was "spanish" and thus "latin" like the romans. Honestly i have seen real spanish people from Spain and they look european. She looks like a native american and i would say zero spanish

I am curious how many people from the amricas are biologically acutally spanish?. What is the statistic and why do they neglect their actual heritage?

that area of the world puzzles me

[Drooperdoo]

Kingpin,
It all depends on each country in South America, and is further broken down by each social class. I mean, you can have a country that is almost wholly Indian statistically, but if a person comes from the upper class he may have blue eyes and look to have stepped right out of Madrid. Take Andy Garcia and Gloria Estefan from Cuba. They look cartoonishly Iberian (and indeed are). But they come from an island that has a massive black population [Cuba]. So, statistically, Cubans don't look like Spaniards. But statistically upper-class Cubans do. It's a question of the descendants of the slave-masters versus the descendants of the slaves.
The same is true for the rest of South America.

* Statistically, the whitest nation in South America is Argentina [at 97%]. With Chile, I believe, coming in a close second [at 95%]. When my wife and I were in Peru we got lonely for Americans. We saw a bus-load of students. The kids had blond hair, light-brown hair and unmistakable European features. (They stood out like sore thumbs among the almost-wholly Indian population of Peru.) As we got closer our excitement was dashed, however, as they turned out to be Argentines. Most Americans are programed to think that all South Americans are Aztecs or Incans. This is not true of Argentina or Chile, where--if you travel there--you'll think you're in a European country. (These places have far higher white ratios than the United States, by the way.)

** For backup on demographic statistics, see the CIA World Factbook. If you have any doubts, though, travel to these countries. Your doubts will clear up instantly.
Argentina: www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ar.html

Chile:
www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ci.html

[Springa]

These "white" statistics for Argentina and Chile are balloney. They include tons of people who are actually mestizos but consider themselves white and/or are socially seen as "white". It has nothing to do with how many % European DNA they have.
Having said that, I'd say Argentina is indeed mostly white, just not 97%. Chile, on the other hand is definitelly mostly "light Mestizo". Which they consider white, by the way.
Brazil too is supposed to be 53% white or something close, which means that 53% of the people declare they're white to the official census, not that 53% are 100% (or even 80%, or even mostly in some cases) genetically European.

The real second place in percentage of whites is not Chile, but Uruguay, by the way.

But anyway, the countries in South America with real substantial ammounts of people who would pass as Europeans are indeed Argentina, Uruguay, Brazil and Chile.

drooperdoo said:

Kingpin,
It all depends on each country in South America, and is further broken down by each social class. I mean, you can have a country that is almost wholly Indian statistically, but if a person comes from the upper class he may have blue eyes and look to have stepped right out of Madrid. Take Andy Garcia and Gloria Estefan from Cuba. They look cartoonishly Iberian (and indeed are). But they come from an island that has a massive black population [Cuba]. So, statistically, Cubans don't look like Spaniards. But statistically upper-class Cubans do. It's a question of the descendants of the slave-masters versus the descendants of the slaves.
The same is true for the rest of South America.

* Statistically, the whitest nation in South America is Argentina [at 97%]. With Chile, I believe, coming in a close second [at 95%]. When my wife and I were in Peru we got lonely for Americans. We saw a bus-load of students. The kids had blond hair, light-brown hair and unmistakable European features. (They stood out like sore thumbs among the almost-wholly Indian population of Peru.) As we got closer our excitement was dashed, however, as they turned out to be Argentines. Most Americans are programed to think that all South Americans are Aztecs or Incans. This is not true of Argentina or Chile, where--if you travel there--you'll think you're in a European country. (These places have far higher white ratios than the United States, by the way.)

** For backup on demographic statistics, see the CIA World Factbook. If you have any doubts, though, travel to these countries. Your doubts will clear up instantly.
Argentina: www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ar.html

Chile:
www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ci.html

[asdf]

springa said:

These "white" statistics for Argentina and Chile are balloney. They include tons of people who are actually mestizos but consider themselves white and/or are socially seen as "white". It has nothing to do with how many % European DNA they have.
Having said that, I'd say Argentina is indeed mostly white, just not 97%. Chile, on the other hand is definitelly mostly "light Mestizo". Which they consider white, by the way.
Brazil too is supposed to be 53% white or something close, which means that 53% of the people declare they're white to the official census, not that 53% are 100% (or even 80%, or even mostly in some cases) genetically European.

The real second place in percentage of whites is not Chile, but Uruguay, by the way.

But anyway, the countries in South America with real substantial ammounts of people who would pass as Europeans are indeed Argentina, Uruguay, Brazil and Chile.

Exactly.

[Educate Me]

true, by the way, the official stats say that argentina is 85% white (which includes a great number of light mestizos) 15% mestizo and indian, 98% is nonesense.

the only south american country as white as a european country is Uruguay, they are easily 80% white.

here is my thread on argentina soccer/football players

dodona.proboards35.com/index.cgi?board=raceclass&action=display&thread=1132684981

[eufrenio]

The question was how Spanish, not how European. I suppose in countries like Argentina and Uruguay, less than half of those who are totally European in origin actually come from Spain. Am I correct, Educate me?

[Educate Me]

yes, italians outnumber spaniards

[asdf]

Kingpin,It all depends on each country in South America, and is further broken down by each social class. I mean, you can have a country that is almost wholly Indian statistically, but if a person comes from the upper class he may have blue eyes and look to have stepped right out of Madrid. Take Andy Garcia and Gloria Estefan from Cuba. They look cartoonishly Iberian (and indeed are). But they come from an island that has a massive black population [Cuba]. So, statistically, Cubans don't look like Spaniards. But statistically upper-class Cubans do. It's a question of the descendants of the slave-masters versus the descendants of the slaves.
The same is true for the rest of South America.

This isn't exactly how it worked though. Cuba received massive immigration from Spain.. In the first three decades of XX Spanish immigration was responsible for 25 percent of the population growth--pred. of a poor background. Other immigrants came from the rest of Latin America but most of them were not slave owners or descendants of slave owners either. 30%~ of Cuba is white, and they're not pred. elite.

[brazen]

kingpin said:

hmmmmm.

I got in this argument with this girl at school today after my classics class (Roman history) because she claimed she was "spanish" and thus "latin" like the romans. Honestly i have seen real spanish people from Spain and they look european. She looks like a native american and i would say zero spanish

I am curious how many people from the amricas are biologically acutally spanish?. What is the statistic and why do they neglect their actual heritage?

that area of the world puzzles me

As far as I know Brazil, Argentina, and chile are the three whitest countries in South America. I noticed a few other people mentioned Urguay as well. I read an article once that said that are about 170 million people in South and Central America who are white.

[huzar]

springa said:

These "white" statistics for Argentina and Chile are balloney. They include tons of people who are actually mestizos but consider themselves white and/or are socially seen as "white". It has nothing to do with how many % European DNA they have.
Having said that, I'd say Argentina is indeed mostly white, just not 97%. Chile, on the other hand is definitelly mostly "light Mestizo". Which they consider white, by the way.
Brazil too is supposed to be 53% white or something close, which means that 53% of the people declare they're white to the official census, not that 53% are 100% (or even 80%, or even mostly in some cases) genetically European.

The real second place in percentage of whites is not Chile, but Uruguay, by the way.

But anyway, the countries in South America with real substantial ammounts of people who would pass as Europeans are indeed Argentina, Uruguay, Brazil and Chile.

[/quote]


Yes, i partially agree. Most "official" Data of "Cia world factbook" aren't the best source, anyway, from what i've seen, i'd say that Argentinian caucasid (or predominantly caucasid) pop. is a solid 85-90% and the percentage is less or more the same for Uruguay (around 85%).
About Chile, the things are more complex ; differently from Argentina Uruguay, official statistics show a mestizo majority (90 %), at least in theory. But in reality, Chilean "mestizaje", is different from the general mean of other latin american countries, and shows a stronger presence of caucasian genes in the population ; so the average Chilean mestizo , is more caucasian than the average mexican mestizo or the average Bolivian, to make an example. Then we can say Chile being a "light mestizo" nation, or a nation populated by a majority of predominantly caucasian mestizos.

Brazil. The most complex of all. Yes, official percentage aren't exact, but neither too far from the truth. Predominantly caucasid pop. constitutes a stable 40-45% of brazilian population, not less. And is concentrated mostly in southern Brazil, near Argentina and Uruguay.


But true, the original question was about iberian origin. Well, we can say that 1/4 of Argentinian pop. is iberian inn origin. And almost 10% of Brazilian one. Though, At this point, there is a problem : spanish/iberian pop. is the most intermixed with indians. Chilean pop. under this point of view is a problem : his pop. is made almost totally by predominantly white mestizo : the white component is clearly spanish ; therefore in theory, all chileans are descendants of spanish iberians.............

[asdf]

Yes, i partially agree. Most "official" Data of "Cia world factbook" aren't the best source,

One of the worst in fact.

[Gamed]

Most Argentinians are actually not pure Spaniards, but Spanish-Italian mix.

[Springa]

Yes, as someone, I forgot who, said once, Brazil is not for rookies. It's indeed very complex, and I always try and explain how the race/class thing works in Brazil and it's kind of hard for Americans and some northern Europeans to grasp. I'm a luso-Brazilian, by the way. I'd agree with a 40-50% rate of people I would call white. But people an average north American would call white would be something like 25-30% I suppose. It's funny, I'm olive skinned and black haired with hazel eyes. Americans almost never consider me white, while Europeans do more often.

I'd like to correct one thing though: it's the German/north Italian/Eastern European immigrants descendents that are concentrated mostly in the southern region. It's also the region with the highest percentage of whites, and they're definitely the majority there. But the highest concentration in terms of numbers is still Sao Paulo state. The population here is about 40 million, and I'd estimate about 60% to be white (at least very predominantly so). So there's about 25 million whites here. More than Portugal and Sweden combined. Of course a good portion of these whites have an amerindian ancestor a couple centuries ago that their families have conveniently forgotten about. Also, of these 25 million, almost half are descendents of Italians and most are descendents of immigrants from the 1850-1930 period.

But if you're looking for white Iberian-Brazilians, you'll find loads of them in places like Minas Gerais, Rio de Janeiro, the elite of Bahia and the northeast and so on.

huzar said:

Brazil. The most complex of all. Yes, official percentage aren't exact, but neither too far from the truth. Predominantly caucasid pop. constitutes a stable 40-45% of brazilian population, not less. And is concentrated mostly in southern Brazil, near Argentina and Uruguay.

[Crimson Guard]

From what I read the majority if not the total Italian immigrants to Argentina are of Sicilian decent or lesser extent Southern Italian(which are basically the same).

Not sure of Brazil,but could be similar.

[Drooperdoo]

I'm always amused at the double-standard between North and South America. It's funny how posters jumped to yell and heckle and criticize the "white rates" I posted about Argentina and Chile. If, on the other hand, I had posted white rates about the United States, scarcely a single one of the nitpickers would have brought up how many white Americans have Indian ancestry, or mentioned Dr. Mark Shriver's study that says up to a third of all white Americans have some distant negro ancestry. The white doctor himself says that 22% of his genes are sub-Saharan.
But Americans have a sort of amnesia.
They won't discount the white status of whites in the United States, but they'll leap to discount the white status of phenotypically Caucasoid people in Argentina.
What hypocrisy.
(But, sadly, it was predictable.)

* Seriously. Would a single one of these hecklers denied that Billy Bob Thornton was white or George W. Bush, or Val Kilmer? All these people have Indian ancestry. Jackie Kennedy has distant negro ancestry. --But when a white Argentine was mentioned, they leaped to tear away their Caucasoid status--even though ironically the white Argentine would statistically have far less admixture.