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Post by Igu on Apr 28, 2005 3:17:54 GMT -5
Here, I will post some historical document about arabs in Berberia:
Ibn Khaldoun "In Ifriquiya and in the Maghreb, since Banou-Hilal and Banou-Soulaïm passed there, at the beginning of Ve century, and baited themselves on these countries during 350ans, all the plains are ruined, whereas in past times from Sudan to the Mediterranean everything was cultivated, as the vestiges attest: monuments, constructions, traces of farms and villages."
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Post by topdog on Apr 28, 2005 3:20:52 GMT -5
Here, I will post some historical document about arabs in Berberia: Ibn Khaldoun "In Ifriquiya and in the Maghreb, since Banou-Hilal and Banou-Soulaïm passed there, at the beginning of Ve century, and baited themselves on these countries during 350ans, all the plains are ruined, whereas in past times from Sudan to the Mediterranean everything was cultivated, as the vestiges attest: monuments, constructions, traces of farms and villages." Why don't you post some info demonstrating how Berbers repelled Arab invasions[e.g. Al Kahina]?
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Post by SensoUnico on Apr 28, 2005 3:45:05 GMT -5
Maybe because she was a Mauretainian and belonged to a Jewish tribe.
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Post by amksa on Apr 28, 2005 3:46:34 GMT -5
Here, I will post some historical document about arabs in Berberia: Ibn Khaldoun "In Ifriquiya and in the Maghreb, since Banou-Hilal and Banou-Soulaïm passed there, at the beginning of Ve century, and baited themselves on these countries during 350ans, all the plains are ruined, whereas in past times from Sudan to the Mediterranean everything was cultivated, as the vestiges attest: monuments, constructions, traces of farms and villages." hey, igu, take a look to this, i bet thet you will enjoy it.. this is a texte from Ibn Khaldun about his views on Arabs, it's in french, sorry amazighworld.net/history/modernhistory/articles/arabes_ibn_khaldun.php according to present day historians, i think that Banu Hilal were just instrumental tools for Berber dynasties.
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Post by topdog on Apr 28, 2005 3:47:16 GMT -5
Maybe because she was a Mauretainian and belonged to a Jewish tribe. Nonsense, Al-Kahina didn't belong to a Jewish tribe.
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Post by amksa on Apr 28, 2005 3:56:24 GMT -5
Maybe because she was a Mauretainian and belonged to a Jewish tribe. Al Kahina wasn't a jewish... "Kahina" just mean in arabic "the witch." She wasn't the first, nor the last Berber princess/priest to gain a high statut and control Berber population, or to exercise an influence over Berber politics (cf Tin Hinan with tuaregs, Zaïnab Tanfzawit with the Almoravids, etc.) and knowing the Berbers like i do, there is no problem if Kahina was actually a jewish princess : i think igu was exclusively focusing on the Arabs sins in North Africa ! héhé. talking about berber war achievements, Igu should also mention Aksel (known as Koceila in arabic.)
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Post by Shenuda on Apr 28, 2005 3:59:26 GMT -5
The fact is that 80% of contemporary Maghrebis are Arabs and probably don´t know any word from Berber language. This my experience with all Maghrebi people - Lybians,Tunisians,Algerians,Moroccans and even one Mauretanian, of course except those Berber speaking. That Mauretanian even told me that in his country they would laugh at you if you said that you are Berber! ;D Anyway, Arabs or Berbers, ALL Maghrebis (except some Kabyle losers, BTW don´t use this word it´s originally arabic = qaba´il) are muslims.
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Post by SensoUnico on Apr 28, 2005 4:05:58 GMT -5
The Jewish bit I got from Wikipedia. Take it up with them. I feel sad that the people in North Africa, Egypt and the Levant even Iraq, consider themselves to be Arabs. The people who killed your ancestors, destroyed your cultures, imposed their language on to you and their silly religion. Most of those people had their own cultures, languages and the Christian religion. Now you think you are like them, a bunch of ignorant, desert dwellers from the ass end of the Arabian peninsula. I feel pity for you and all your ancestors you are shitting on.
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Post by amksa on Apr 28, 2005 4:11:56 GMT -5
The fact is that 80% of contemporary Maghrebis are Arabs and probably don´t know any word from Berber language. This my experience with all Maghrebi people - Lybians,Tunisians,Algerians,Moroccans and even one Mauretanian, of course except those Berber speaking. That Mauretanian even told me that in his country they would laugh at you if you said that you are Berber! ;D Anyway, Arabs or Berbers, ALL Maghrebis (except some Kabyle losers, BTW don´t use this word it´s originally arabic = qaba´il) are muslims. the thing are far more complicated with the Moroccans, because this is mainly a Berber country but this is also the only country in this illusional arab world which wasn't dominated by turks : all the arabs countries like Egypt or lebanon are turkised.. during the turk invasion, arabic wasn't even an official language in this so called arab country, with the exception of Morocco (how pathetic !), go figure !!! haha. the irony is that Morocco - which is still a real Berber Kingdom (in a linguistic, cultural and demographic way) - is the only country who manage to keep the cultural "andalou myth" alive (architecture, art and craft, etc.) This is the moroccan paradox who always try to keep together intact some useless cultural traits and modernity : moroccan Berber preserved the moroccan Arabs from several invasions (Spanish, Portuguese, French, Turks, etc.)
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Post by Shenuda on Apr 28, 2005 4:22:04 GMT -5
The Jewish bit I got from Wikipedia. Take it up with them. I feel sad that the people in North Africa, Egypt and the Levant even Iraq, consider themselves to be Arabs. The people who killed your ancestors, destroyed your cultures, imposed their language on to you and their silly religion. Most of those people had their own cultures, languages and the Christian religion. Now you think you are like them, a bunch of ignorant, desert dwellers from the ass end of the Arabian peninsula. I feel pity for you and all your ancestors you are shitting on. Look. When Arab muslims arrived to Egypt, Syria and Iraq many locals greeted them as liberators from Byzantine orthodox occupation. Certainly, they hadn´t any reason to be frustrate. Muslims were much more tolerant than most Christians at this time. Berbers in Maghreb were something else because they consisted of many warlike tribes, so they were more obstinate. However, after some time they converted to Islam and became an active part of Arab-islamic world (remember Almoravides - el Morabitoun and Almohades - el Mowahedoun). Early Arab muslims never destroyed any culture. Arabisation of Egypt,Iraq,Sham and Maghreb was slow and complicated proces. BTW, maybe you don´t know it, but there are still many christians in Egypt and Syria(+ Lebanon) and they speak Arabic. Actually,Syrian christians were big supporters of modern pan-arabic nationalist movement. Anyway, my dear SensoUnico you are even not any Kabyle sharmoot like Igu, you are not North African or Middle Easterner, you are ignorant American or European christian who knows shit about our history or culture. It´s not your business man. Go to school, learn something and then come back and argue about it.
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Post by topdog on Apr 28, 2005 5:48:03 GMT -5
Correction, her name was Queen Dihya, not Kahina(witch, sorceress). The Arabs simply called her Kahina as a means of explaining their military defeats at her hands.
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Post by Igu on May 1, 2005 14:52:01 GMT -5
Correction, her name was Queen Dihya, not Kahina(witch, sorceress). The Arabs simply called her Kahina as a means of explaining their military defeats at her hands. -I don't speak about Kahina and Koceila because my post was speaking about the cohabitation between arabs and Berbers, except in morocco, we were NEVER under their rule, NEVER. It started only in 62 in Algeria. -Correct, Arabs called her Kahina : sorceress, her real name was Dhihya, Dhihya lived in what is now called the Aures : Chaoui Berbers. they still use that first name there. My cousin bears the Kahina name.
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Post by topdog on May 1, 2005 15:44:57 GMT -5
-I don't speak about Kahina and Koceila because my post was speaking about the cohabitation between arabs and Berbers, except in morocco, we were NEVER under their rule, NEVER. It started only in 62 in Algeria. -Correct, Arabs called her Kahina : sorceress, her real name was Dhihya, Dhihya lived in what is now called the Aures : Chaoui Berbers. they still use that first name there. My cousin bears the Kahina name. True, I was trying to cite her original Berber name, sometimes names can often cause confusion. Kahina sounds more Arabic.
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Berter
New Member
Et si on fait un tour ensemble, Nouna!?
Posts: 6
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Post by Berter on May 1, 2005 16:13:21 GMT -5
-Correct, Arabs called her Kahina : sorceress, her real name was Dhihya, Dhihya lived in what is now called the Aures : Chaoui Berbers. they still use that first name there. When I was 16 yrs, I had a sport monitor with the name Dihya.
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Ardashir
Junior Member
Life,war and nothing else!
Posts: 97
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Post by Ardashir on May 3, 2005 3:40:33 GMT -5
Here, I will post some historical document about arabs in Berberia: Ibn Khaldoun "In Ifriquiya and in the Maghreb, since Banou-Hilal and Banou-Soulaïm passed there, at the beginning of Ve century, and baited themselves on these countries during 350ans, all the plains are ruined, whereas in past times from Sudan to the Mediterranean everything was cultivated, as the vestiges attest: monuments, constructions, traces of farms and villages." Frankly speaking,I hope that one day in near feature Berbers kick out Arabs from their homeland!
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