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Post by Necronomicom on May 17, 2004 18:46:21 GMT -5
Few years ago I read in a Brazilian magazine a article about the Portuguese landing in Brazil way before 1500, they had maps to prove it, according to the magazine the Portuguese knew about the American continent before Columbus traveled to it, but the Portuguese never mentiononed about it to anyone else, the Portuguese though this land was full with demons and beasts, and in 1500 with the concern of the Pope the Portuguese set up a "crusade" to go to Brazil and kill/convert the demons (indians).
do you have any info about this Alex?
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Post by alex221166 on May 17, 2004 19:21:50 GMT -5
Its great that you know your country's history, how about taking the next step and learning about other countries, before making claims like: Quote:Does anyone mention them? No - at least not in northern Europe. Think! You are merely lowing yourself to the level of those minority of idiot 'historians' who so tick you off. Hmmm, sorry buddy, but Godinho de Herédia and Vaz de Torres aren't even mentioned in the Portuguese history books, let alone in other countries. Furthermore, from what I am told, the Portuguese Age of Discovery gets MAYBE one paragraph in foreign history books, and the only guy mentioned is Vasco da Gama (and Pedro Alvares Cabral, in the more thorough ones). |
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Post by alex221166 on May 17, 2004 19:32:27 GMT -5
Few years ago I read in a Brazilian magazine a article about the Portuguese landing in Brazil way before 1500, they had maps to prove it, according to the magazine the Portuguese knew about the American continent before Columbus traveled to it, but the Portuguese never mentiononed about it to anyone else, the Portuguese though this land was full with demons and beasts, and in 1500 with the concern of the Pope the Portuguese set up a "crusade" to go to Brazil and kill/convert the demons (indians). do you have any info about this Alex? What I do know is that according to the historian Sword&Compass mentioned, the Portuguese knew about North America since the 1420s. I don't know when was Brazil actually discovered, but I do know that it happened prior to Columbus' journey (and probably after the early colonisation of Cape Verde). I have no data about a Papal decree regarding a crusade against the Indians. The Church was often against the settlers' abuses, and that was why the Africans were imported to Brazil (to allow the safe conversion of the Indians and the establishment of the Jesuit missions). The slave trade of the Amerindians in Brazil was formally prohibited by king Sebastian in 1570. Unfortunately most of the Portuguese archives of the age of exploration were destroyed in 1755, but there may be copies in private libraries and in the Vatican. |
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Arawn
Full Member
Posts: 183
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Post by Arawn on May 17, 2004 20:40:01 GMT -5
Then you've been told Bullshit.
How about *gasp* visiting a libray and seeing for yourself.
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Post by SwordandCompass on May 17, 2004 22:34:31 GMT -5
Arawn the elfish warriorette,
alex's frustration about portuguese history written in books is by far very true.
reasons are depending what country writes it.for example america is an english speaking country and many of its aspects (history) its going to have an english (british) slant on things.one of the best cases of highjacked distortion is the "angloized" ferdinand magellan! His name is Fernão Magalhaes!!!! hehe ;D
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Post by SwordandCompass on May 17, 2004 22:49:09 GMT -5
Few years ago I read in a Brazilian magazine a article about the Portuguese landing in Brazil way before 1500, they had maps to prove it, according to the magazine the Portuguese knew about the American continent before Columbus traveled to it, but the Portuguese never mentiononed about it to anyone else, the Portuguese though this land was full with demons and beasts, and in 1500 with the concern of the Pope the Portuguese set up a "crusade" to go to Brazil and kill/convert the demons (indians). do you have any info about this Alex? Necronomicom i heard about this (secrecy of brazil) but i dont have any links but now i have something to look for!one point must we must remember is the political situation of Portugal during this time. i am sorry "necronomicom" but that is one of the worst comments i have ever heard!The Portuguese Conquistadors never never looked upon other humans as demons!! They where men of true Faith!!!every country they went to they went as Noble men and men of the true cross!!! compass sword and faith. to speard the word of god ,and of course the search for gold  |
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Post by alex221166 on May 17, 2004 22:54:38 GMT -5
Then you've been told Bullshit. How about *gasp* visiting a libray and seeing for yourself. Even the best Portuguese libraries do not have foreign highschool books, I am afraid. If I have been told bullshit, I have been told bullshit by foreigners (namely Americans). |
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Post by Vitor on May 20, 2004 1:57:50 GMT -5
It's very easy to show that alex is totaly RIGHT! watch the cosmos series (one of the most popular science series ever). Yes, Carl Sagan didn't mentioned the portuguese... that is interesting! he did mentioned the dutch, yes the first european explorers to arrive in the southern ocean in the XVII century... I guess Portuguese are not europeans...we are martians. Carl Sagan has no guilty at all (let his soul rest in peace), who were resposible? I guess who tought him this crap!  Yes Alex have reason to be frustated! We conquered all the indic ocean (we even had a base in present Iraq bashora, for more than a few months...lol). what is more interesting is that we did that for 100 years, with an average of 6000 people (in all persian gulf and indic ocean)! We discovered/cnquered oceans and lands for more than 300 years, and we were at the top for more than 100 years. what movies America "made" portraying this period? (with portuguese being the main subject) NONE! how many movies did the americans made portraying dutch, english and spanish sailors... hundreds! That is how more than 100 years of history is forgotten, the "world" culture don't aprove this history... that is really sad! |
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Post by alex221166 on May 20, 2004 8:48:32 GMT -5
Vitor, welcome to Dodona! It is always pleasant to see that our Portuguese "community" is of good health and growing. You are absolutely right about what you said. The thing is, when we complain that our history has been wronged by some foreign nations, we are accused of being delusional, of having an inventive imagination or of being plain liars. This problem has even been helped by the fact that since 1974, any Portuguese that sees himself as a patriot or as a defender of his heritage, is immediately labelled as fascist. As sad as it is, the only time a Portuguese can show patriotism without being criticized, is when the Portuguese national team plays... The above is of course, just the tip of the iceberg. England, France and Holland had a lot to gain by accusing Portugal of being a nation of inferior people: that way they could "rightfully" take our colonies from us and get away with it. Few people know about 1657, 1891, or about how close Britain was to invade Angola and Mozambique (WWI came to our rescue back then!). The Encyclopaedia Britannica of 1911 calls the Portuguese "a nation of halfbreeds, though superior in intelligence and character to most other halfbreeds". An Encyclopaedia!!! I rest my case!!! As to the arts, we can't wait for America to find out the real love story of Dom Pedro and Inês de Castro (a better plot than any Shakesperean novel, with the plus that it happens to be true), about the battle of Aljubarrota (better than any Braveheart), about the Age of Explorations (2/3 of Vasco da Gama's crew died during the journey, including his own brother Paulo da Gama), about the Age of Imperialism (can anyone imagine 6 Portuguese soldiers storming a Turkish galley in the Indian ocean with 150 men? It really happened, and the 6 Portuguese survived and defeated the Turks... Or how about 50 or 60 Portuguese soldiers and Jesuits defeating 10.000 Manchu troops?). |
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Post by Vitor on May 20, 2004 9:51:52 GMT -5
You are right, Alex! why the inferior halfbreed Portuguese (In Brazil the Portuguese were mixed with indians and blacks), were able to regain control of Brazil from Dutch and French!  Or how some mestiços (halfbreeds from malacca and portuguese ancestors) where able to stand and fight against one army of more than 2000 dutch sailors. how many they were? less than 100 halfbreeds! they endured a eight-month siege...then followed by a great battle! then they lost WITH HONOUR! there were more dutch sailors dead.. there are so much more of these TRUE histories... |
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Post by geirr on May 20, 2004 11:00:50 GMT -5
The Encyclopaedia Britannica of 1911 calls the Portuguese "a nation of halfbreeds, though superior in intelligence and character to most other halfbreeds". An Encyclopaedia!!! I rest my case!!! From the 1911 edition Encyclopedia Britannica- The Portuguese people is composed of many racial elements. Its earliest known ancestors were the Iberians (q.v.). The peasantry, especially in the north, are closely akin to the Galician and Asturian Spaniards in character, physique and dialect; and these three ethnical groupsPortuguese of the north, Galicians, Asturiansmay perhaps be regarded as the purest representatives of the Spanish stock. The first settlers with whom they intermarried were probably Carthaginians, who were followed in smaller numbers by Greeks; but the attempts which have sometimes been made to ascribe certain attributes of the Portuguese to the influence of these races are altogether fanciful. The Romans, whose supremacy was not seriously threatened for some six centuries after the Punic Wars, gave to Portugal its language and the foundation of its civilization; there is, however, no evidence that they seriously modified the physical type or character of its people. In these respects the Suevic and Visigothic conquests left a more permanent impression, especially in the northern provinces. After 711 came the long period of Moorish (ie. Arab and Berber) predominance. The influence of the Moors was greatest south of the Tagus. In Alemtejo, and still more in Algarve, Arab and Berber types are common; and the influence of these races can everywhere be discerned in the architecture, handicrafts and speech of the peasantry. So complete was the intellectual triumph of the Moors that an intermediate Mozarabic population arose, Portuguese in blood, Christian in religion, but Arab in language and manners. Many of the Mozarabs even adopted the characteristic Mahommedan rite of circumcision. Under the tolerant rule of Islam the Portuguese Jews rose to a height of wealth and culture unparalleled in Europe; they intermarried with the Christians both at this period and after their forced conversion by King Emanuel I. (1495-1521). After 1450 yet another ethnical element was introduced into the nation, through the importation of African slaves in vast numbers. Negroid types are common throughout central and southern Portugal. No European race confronted with the problem of an immense colored population has solved it more successfully than the Portuguese and their kinsmen in Brazil; in both countries intermarriage was freely resorted to, and the offspring of these mixed unions are superior in character and intelligence to most half-breeds. Source |
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Post by Vitor on May 20, 2004 11:11:32 GMT -5
There were mostly only black males imported to Portugal... for working those hard labours that no one like... I guess no women In Portugal would marry a black, because it would be a lausy investment...in social terms! after all they were slaves! The Africans in Portugal were most sold to England and even to germany, well it was good money in those times! England did get more Slaves than Portugal acording to some historic facts...and England population numbers were only a little higher than in Portugal... in those days... In Brazil, it was a totaly diferent situation... THERE WERE NO WHITE portuguese womens in there...well portuguese took advantage of what they found... btw Portugal, have lower mediterranean gene than in spain (those from fenicians and north of africa), we are a better example of what was the ancient Iberia than the spanish are... All the genetic tests testifys that! "Negroid types are common throughout central and southern Portugal" that is totally crap! now they are common on the big cities (like in England), but not on the earlier XX century. I guess the negroid type on XXI century portugal are less common here than in present day England! |
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Post by geirr on May 20, 2004 11:28:55 GMT -5
I should add that I don't think it's possible to rely on the 1911 Britannica today nevertheless I posted it in the interest of fairness.
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Post by alex221166 on May 20, 2004 11:59:46 GMT -5
I should add that I don't think it's possible to rely on the 1911 Britannica today nevertheless I posted it in the interest of fairness. The Encyclopaedia Britannica of 1911 should be seen as an example of early XX century colonialist propaganda. If the British public believed that Portugal was a nation of inferior people, they would find it rightious to conquer the colonies of that "inferior" nation. It's all about money. |
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Post by SwordandCompass on May 20, 2004 15:03:15 GMT -5
and dont forget the 450 Portuguese conquistadors in ethiopia who fought off Ahmed Gragn massive army!!!! "Edward Gibbon was later to summarize their achiements in just nine words" "Ethiopia was saved by four hundred and fifty Portuguese." Don Christopher da Gama,Vascos da Gama son WHO LEAD THE 450!!!  Vós, Portugueses, poucos quanto fortes,que o fraco poder vosso não pesais;vós, que, à custa de vossas várias mortes,a Lei da Vida Eterna dilatais:assim do Céu deitadas são as sortesque vós, por muito poucos que sejais,muito façais na Santa Cristandade,que tanto, ó Cristo, exaltas a humildade! Luís de Camões Lusíadas |
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