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Post by xxx on Feb 5, 2004 14:24:12 GMT -5
Of course to some the ideal answer would have been that Turkey should be militarily defeated and Constantinople be back in Europe, separating the ethnically Greek Turks from those non Europid ones, and Islam banned. Sorry, not a poll option, and only available as a separate option if you state it as a comment Please, care to explain what your views are.
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Post by Yiannis on Feb 5, 2004 15:04:41 GMT -5
Actually no! Greece does not have any claims (or need) to any Turkish soil. Greece's best interest is to have at it's eastern borders a democratic, prosperus Turkey with educated, progresive citizens. This is to the best interest of Greece (and of course of Turkey and the sert of the world).
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Post by xxx on Feb 5, 2004 16:02:33 GMT -5
Yiannis, I admit I would like to see Constantinople back in Europe. And by this I mean the separate option, not the joining of Turkey as a EU membe. Oh dear, I guess that being a Hispano I can't avoid wanting to reconquer anything anytime
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Praetor
Full Member
Graecus in Fennia
Posts: 246
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Post by Praetor on Feb 5, 2004 19:57:43 GMT -5
Well our reconquista 80 years ago didn't end in top fashion ;D...Oh well ,I 100% agree with Yiannis.
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Post by Satyros on Feb 5, 2004 21:50:21 GMT -5
Actually no! Greece does not have any claims (or need) to any Turkish soil. Greece's best interest is to have at it's eastern borders a democratic, prosperus Turkey with educated, progresive citizens. This is to the best interest of Greece (and of course of Turkey and the sert of the world). Yannaki, you prove once more that you are ignorant if not a pseudo socialist monkey. You know VERY WELL, there is no chance of Turkey becoming " democratic " or the majority of its citizents "educated and progressive". You cant fool anyone else about that but your little self. The only thing Turkey in its present form will ever be is a military backwards dictatorship, with the Army running things in reality behind the state. But you didnt tell us if you want Turkey to become an EU member or not? Are you a Greek that will be happy if you co-habit with millions of low-life Turks that will flood Greece once Turkey enters the EU? If you want that to happen, then i dont want to have any connection with you d better get the f*ck out of this country, if you re not already living elsewhere. Apart from that, if Turks dont flood my country and turn it into an Islamic backwards sh*thole, i too wih to see Turky become a democratic and progressive eastern neighbor. But i honestly doubt this will ever happen. All i said so far is in respect to COMPROMISE and COHABITANCE. If we speak in respect to JUSTICE, then Western Turkey should become a Greek controlled province, if the Greek element goes to Asia Minor again then the place will flurish and will be economically active again. I m not saying that any Turks should be slaughtered in revenge for out forefathers because i am a democratic person and i dont want to make Yannaki sad.
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Post by Archangelos on Feb 6, 2004 3:13:31 GMT -5
I have to agree with Satyros. What in God's name are you thinking Yiannis
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Post by Dienekes on Feb 6, 2004 4:26:08 GMT -5
Turkey won't join the EU because Germany doesn't want to be flooded with more Turks than it already has. But, if Turkey ends up joining the EU, Greeks should use this opportunity to resettle Asia Minor.
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Post by geirr on Feb 6, 2004 4:26:57 GMT -5
Of course to some the ideal answer would have been that Turkey should be militarily defeated and Constantinople be back in Europe, separating the ethnically Greek Turks from those non Europid ones, and Islam banned. Sorry, not a poll option, and only available as a separate option if you state it as a comment Please, care to explain what your views are. I'm not European so I'm speaking as an outsider, Turkey will eventually be part of the E.U. but there needs to be big changes before that happens and it won't happen soon. You will need to convince the Greeks and that's not going to be easy. The Cyprus problem will need to be fixed. The situation with the Kurds will need to be addressed. Turkey would have to meet the stringent financial and economic prerequisites to join the E.U. and thats not going to happen soon. There are infact a number of hurdles that will have to be tackle by Turkey. I think the fact that most Turks are muslim won't really be a hinderance. There's just as much chance of Turkey being converted to protestantism as there is the rest of Europe into Islam. Besides few Europes have a problem with Greek Orthodox for example even though few Europeans are in that religion.
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Post by Satyros on Feb 6, 2004 5:49:15 GMT -5
Where from might you be?
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Post by geirr on Feb 6, 2004 6:18:02 GMT -5
I'm an Australian born in Argentina
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Post by xxx on Feb 6, 2004 8:48:10 GMT -5
Yiannis and Satyros,
when I posted this poll I suspected there might be some confronted opinions, but I could never forsee these would be among Greek people.
My comments that Constantinople should return to Europe are honest, but I know they are very difficult, if not impossible, to realize... at least in a near future. Perhaps a well developed planning of resettlement, or culture recolonization, carried out by the Greeks, as proposed by Dienekes would be a viable way.
I cannot tell much as I don't know much about modern Turkey, but from the few "Western" Turks I've met I gather it wouldn't be impossible to draw them back into mainstream European culture, as they already look as if they are culturally separated from the other Turks.
Just a thought.
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Post by xxx on Feb 6, 2004 9:05:20 GMT -5
I'm not European so I'm speaking as an outsider, Turkey will eventually be part of the E.U. but there needs to be big changes before that happens and it won't happen soon. You will need to convince the Greeks and that's not going to be easy. Not only the Greeks. Europeans don't bother much about the chance of Turkey joining the EU as they don't see it as something that might happen immediately. Besides, the joining of other nations in the near future will signify a burden to Europe, and this will no doubt change Europeans' views on others joining. While some politicians like the French are trying to portray the EU as a non-Christian club, that we know is a complete lie, and probably their only reasoning for this madness is to gain a few votes from their moslem immigrant population. While ordinary EU citizens see the "western" face of the Turks there will be no much of rejection. But as soon as people realizes what there is behind these western Turks, you can expect different reactions. I insist in that I have the feeling that most "western" Turks care very little about Islam. Since they were once Christians, accepting some kind of Christianism, even one modelled for themselves, wouldn't have to be viewed as something completely foreign to them. Sadly, EU politicians are of little use for these matters and can offer nothing but plans for a few days down the line. A similar thing could be planned for Albanians, Kosovars, or Bosnians. Their links with the islamic world are as strong or as weak as we allowed them to be.
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Post by Graeme on Feb 6, 2004 9:40:53 GMT -5
I an Oz too, but I was born in Europe even if it is on the edge. Frankly, Turkey is westwards looking and has been in close communion with Europe for my years.
Turkey should be allowed to join the EU though getting it to comply with the acquies will be difficult. Look at the trouble Poland is giving Brussels. Turkey has major problems especially with the Kurdish minority and the Turkish army.
Turkey entering the EU may reduce illegal immigrants using Turkey to enter Europe via Greece in order to get to Germany.
Living in Australia as I do I feel uneasy about Europe's future. Europe needs workers, but has a contracting population. Your prosperity, late marriage, few children, long periods in education and the long time needed to establish oneself financially is your downfall. No wonder Indian, Chinese, various Middle Easterners, North Africans and Sub Saharran Africans want to sneak into your countries. Think of it this way, an Anglo Australian introduce the rabbit into Southern Australia in the 1800s, now it is impossible to get rid of them. That is what will happen in Europe. In fifety years time you will be living in a very foreign homeland.
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Post by geirr on Feb 6, 2004 10:25:40 GMT -5
Its easy to forget that there the E.U. is not exactly popular within Europe, with all its red tape and standardisation. Many of the eastern European countries as well as Turkey have their eyes on the generous economic subsidies.
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Post by Agrippa on Feb 6, 2004 12:36:59 GMT -5
Turkey is Muslim country, ethnically/linguistically not European and their majority is biologically not European. (Although many individuals are)
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