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Post by tonynatuzzi on Nov 26, 2005 20:36:21 GMT -5
Off topic here,but according to the guiness book of world records there has been only one human being in history that was 9 feet tall and this guy passed away at the very young age of 22 many many years ago.
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Post by dukeofpain on Nov 26, 2005 20:39:08 GMT -5
I am going off topic here but all this holocaust talk reminded me of something peculiar. In the 30's and 40's in Germany and in all of europe being Jewish was an ethnicity and not much else. This fact hit me like a ton of bricks today when I realized that lets say you were a convert to judaism during that time....you could easily just convert out to save your own neck. But if you were an athiest but born to a jewish mother or even just a father, there was nothing you could do about it. You were screwed whether you were in Greece or in Germany or Poland. Orthodox Jewish law mattered nothing in europe during this time. Ancestrt is what mattered. Hell, you could even be a "messianic jew" or a "jew for jesus" and still be more of target for extermination than a convert. If you were so much as a quarter jew, you were still screwed. If you were a convert, you could save yourself. So this might be today why so many people including myself and other jews and even more gentiles have come to define jewish as more ethnic than religious. If anyone has any thoughts contradicting what I said I would be more than happy to hear them and discuss this mild hypothesis of mine. It's because Judaism and Jewishness was never just about "religion", it covered all aspects of Jewish life and Jews. Kind of like an evolved form of ancient stems of belief that were held by primitive peoples. If you were to ask one of those primitive people about (religion, spiritualism, beliefs, etc.) they would not even exist as words, consequently they would have no idea what your talking about, as they lived making no distinction between"religion" and any other aspect of reality. And this is how it stayed for ages, as the Jews themselves never were motivated to create more non-jews into jews, with a veil of "religion" ", since it in itself is merely just another aspect of Jewishness, and therefore is a paradoxical thought from the pov of the Jews, like it would be for any other number of peoples. The Judaic spawn religions like Christianity and Islam are very much similar though differed greatly on this issue, both being rabidly spread with force and violence. They all seem to be self-important "religions", though the people whom hold them seem to be quite different. As a Christian or Muslim cynically spread their religion, they at the same time loathe themselves, and the people whom they want to indoctrinate. Where as the Jews also loathe those whom are different from them, but who they wish to have nothing to do with. They, unlike the formers, cynically isolate themselves, for which ethnocentrism and consequentially mutual resentment of Jews with non-Jews, is an effect of. This friction is observable for long before they ran into Europeans and even Jesus' existence (Assyria, Egypt, Ethiopia, etc.) Which is why peoples view Jews in a different context than a person with differing religious beliefs, being that spiritualism in meta-Jewishness throughout history is only one of many factors that makes a person who identifies himself with the Jewish group, as being an actual Jew.
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Post by dukeofpain on Nov 26, 2005 20:54:30 GMT -5
Yes.... IF I CALLED SOMEONE A LIAR Stating someone is a likely liar and using evidence that suggests that a person with that particular claim, is likely lying, is perfectly justified. Get real. Or stop responding to my posts, as henceforth I am not going to too dignify this rubbish by answering it.
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Post by Mike the Jedi on Nov 26, 2005 21:40:43 GMT -5
See? With all due respect, Tony's reaction was the conditioned response we're all supposed to have: To question the legitimacy of some people's claims of victimhood = hatred of all Jews, everywhere. In fact, as Norm Finkelstein points out: To let the liars and scammers go free is the greatest insult to the people who really suffered. And there are MILLIONS of these scammers. Finkelstein's own parents were Holocaust survivors. His mom was shocked and dismayed that the list of "survivors" keeps growing with each year. All other World War II groups are dying off, but Holocaust claimants--in defiance of all logic--are actually GROWING with each passing year. Finkelstein's mom said, "With all these 'survivors,' who did Hitler kill?" And that's the greatest evil of the scammers. They add legitimacy to the Holocaust-deniers' position: Because if all these millions of Jews survived, and we know EXACTLY how many there were in Europe, thanks to census statistics . . . "Who did Hitler kill?" So in conclusion: Exposing the liars and manipulators is NOT a hatred of Jews. It's the greatest sacrament that we can carry out to honor the legitimate people who suffered and who deserve reparation money that is being siphoned off and stolen by scammers. Well said, Droop. Droop, Scammers should be brought into the light and shamed for taking advantage of a tragedy. I just find it annoying when certain groups use it as ammunition to the downplay the entire atrocity. Indeed.
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Post by Yankel on Nov 26, 2005 21:58:22 GMT -5
So in conclusion: Exposing the liars and manipulators is NOT a hatred of Jews. It's the greatest sacrament that we can carry out to honor the legitimate people who suffered and who deserve reparation money that is being siphoned off and stolen by scammers. So, in essence, what you're saying is that the Nazis didn't murder 6 million Jews?
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Post by tonynatuzzi on Nov 26, 2005 22:01:03 GMT -5
Drooperdoo doesen't even think Nazis murdered 6 Jews much less 6 million Jews.
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Post by Yankel on Nov 26, 2005 22:19:46 GMT -5
Maybe one or two, just so we can't call him a Holocaust denier. He's a modern kind of guy. I believe there's a difference between holocaust trivialization and flat out holocaust denial. I'm thinking Droop belongs to the former category.
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Post by Mike the Jedi on Nov 26, 2005 22:29:27 GMT -5
Or maybe he's trying to say "why don't the same rules that apply to everyone else apply to Jews?"
Maybe.
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Post by Yankel on Nov 26, 2005 22:45:31 GMT -5
Have you ever heard the myth about Germans making lamshades and soap out of Jews discussed in reality? I've never actually heard anyone, Jew or goy, talk about it. I'm guessing you haven't, either.
It's easier to believe German atrocities against Jews, you know, seeing as how the former tried to exterminate the latter, and not vice versa. Anti-Semitic propaganda and 'Jewish cabals' are rooted in nothing but unprovoked hatred.
I think the rules that apply to 'everyone else' apply to Jews. In fact, I think it's the Muslims, blacks and other minorities who recieve special treatment. But that's another issue.
At any rate, you sure have a developed opinion on the matter, having never met a Jew in your life and all.
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Post by Educate Me on Nov 26, 2005 23:02:50 GMT -5
droop has never met a jew in his life?
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Post by tonynatuzzi on Nov 26, 2005 23:13:50 GMT -5
Alot of people in the world have never met a Jew in their entire lives since Jews are only concentrated in certain parts of the world.
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Post by Drooperdoo on Nov 26, 2005 23:38:37 GMT -5
Actually, it was Norm Finkelstein who pointed out how the millions of "survivors" adds legitimacy to the Holocaust-deniers. His mom said, "If there are all these survivors, who did Hitler kill?"
So it's amusing watching over-excited people suddenly attack me for quoting Jews on the subject.
It's fascinating, really. Did they even read my post? If they had they would have read the sentence that the scammers were evil because they played into the hands of Holocaust-deniers.
But I guess it's easier to overlook what I actually said, if you want to attack someone. lol
(Man, sometimes you guys act like a lynchmob.) It's no wonder why politicians don't address crowds by way of intellect, but by way of emotion. Look at the principles at work on this thread. Right after my post, one person was claiming that I said the Holocaust never happened, another was yelling that I hate all Jews, a third was saying "I bet he never met a Jew". lol lol lol Man. I guess it's easier to go off on tangents than to address the quotations I passed on from Norm Finkelstein. Or does he hate Jews, too? Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha
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Post by anodyne on Nov 26, 2005 23:49:23 GMT -5
You called someone a likely liar without proof. How about I call you a likely bull$h*ter? Your honor is offended, isn't it?
By the way, you left out the rest of that paragraph.. for an obvious reason.
What evidence? You only showed evidence (well, I haven't seen the evidence. I don't own the book but for the sake of argument lets say it is correct) that some have lied. It isn't evidence that that particular person may have lied. You don't even know the details of that person's story. Neither do I. Until we know more about her we can't state that she's a likely liar or not. We can't assume that a person may be lying without a shred of actual evidence.
I'm totally about reality, dude.
It would be wrong for me not respond when someone makes a silly statement.
Heh, diginity.....
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Post by dukeofpain on Nov 27, 2005 0:13:06 GMT -5
So in conclusion: Exposing the liars and manipulators is NOT a hatred of Jews. It's the greatest sacrament that we can carry out to honor the legitimate people who suffered and who deserve reparation money that is being siphoned off and stolen by scammers. So, in essence, what you're saying is that the Nazis didn't murder 6 million Jews? A lot of supposed history upon closer inspection turns out to be nothing more than old war propaganda that has been instilled in peoples minds for so long that everything now is a "given", that people believe just because they hear it so much. Truth is for decades they used to say that 6 million were killed in Auschwitz alone, now that number has progressively lessened to under a million. So if that estimate could exist for thirty years why should we now take these new numbers at face value? The post WW-II propaganda dug their own grave, since now what is known is many things were lied about, so if some things were lied about surely other things could be also. What message are they trying to send? : sure we lied about this that and the other thing, but take our word on it, 6 million Jews were murdered. The British for instance made an agitprop piece after the war on the liberation of a camp which they called a death camp, which was actually a detention center for political prisoners and subverts from around Europe and Germany. The mass graves that were supposedly Jews gassed, were actually the dissidents who had been ravaged by typhus, typhoid fever and other disease, which came in large from British bombing. None of these camps it was revealed had gas chambers, and most of the victims died from Disease. - Dachau, Buchenwald - The camps that were the Final solution happened were in Poland, which was occupied by the soviet union. So who's to say the Soviets can't lie, if the Americans and British can so easily? Stalin had no problem with lying about the millions he killed by famine and war. He even made allies with the americans and British after he had the blood of millions on his hands.
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Post by dukeofpain on Nov 27, 2005 0:17:21 GMT -5
Actually, it was Norm Finkelstein who pointed out how the millions of "survivors" adds legitimacy to the Holocaust-deniers. His mom said, "If there are all these survivors, who did Hitler kill?"
So it's amusing watching over-excited people suddenly attack me for quoting Jews on the subject.
It's fascinating, really. Did they even read my post? If they had they would have read the sentence that the scammers were evil because they played into the hands of Holocaust-deniers.
But I guess it's easier to overlook what I actually said, if you want to attack someone. lol
(Man, sometimes you guys act like a lynchmob.) It's no wonder why politicians don't address crowds by way of intellect, but by way of emotion. Look at the principles at work on this thread. Right after my post, one person was claiming that I said the Holocaust never happened, another was yelling that I hate all Jews, a third was saying "I bet he never met a Jew". lol lol lol Man. I guess it's easier to go off on tangents than to address the quotations I passed on from Norm Finkelstein. Or does he hate Jews, too? Bwa-ha-ha-ha-haIt surely is. Just as it's easier to deny effects have causes and rather imply that people hate because they are inherently hate filled.
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