White Supremacist David Duke visits Syria.

[Yankel]

I would hardly call my post an attack, Drooperdoo. All I did was ask a simple a question. Who's "you guys"?

Right after my post, one person was claiming that I said the Holocaust never happened

Actually, you were accused of holocaust trivialization.

another was yelling that I hate all Jews

Are we talking about the same thread? Show me where someone said you hate all Jews.

a third was saying "I bet he never met a Jew"

I mentioned that Mike had never met a Jew and EducateMe thought I meant you.

[Mike the Jedi]

prose said:

At any rate, you sure have a developed opinion on the matter, having never met a Jew in your life and all.

But I'm talking to one right now!

The intention of my statement was not to attack you, but to defend Droop.

[Drooperdoo]

Yankel,
Tony asked right after the discussion was brought up "how many 'Jew-haters' come onto this board," and Melnorme wryly made some quip. The equation of "lashing out against abuses of the Holocaust event for financial gain" and "being a Jew-hater" shocked me.
That's why I mentioned it.
It was well-meaning, but irrational--and showed up the underpinnings of the psychological conditioning to which we are all subject.

[Yankel]

No, no. We're cool, Mike. I'm also cool with Drooperdoo. This never-ending debate of ours has actually become a friendly ritual.

I'm not calling either of you guys anti-Semites. But that other guy...

[Yankel]

Drooper,
I was thinking Melnorme's comment was a subtle a dig at DukeofPain.

[ndrthl]

zathuras said:

I am going off topic here but all this holocaust talk reminded me of something peculiar.

In the 30's and 40's in Germany and in all of europe being Jewish was an ethnicity and not much else. This fact hit me like a ton of bricks today when I realized that lets say you were a convert to judaism during that time....you could easily just convert out to save your own neck. But if you were an athiest but born to a jewish mother or even just a father, there was nothing you could do about it. You were screwed whether you were in Greece or in Germany or Poland. Orthodox Jewish law mattered nothing in europe during this time. Ancestrt is what mattered. Hell, you could even be a "messianic jew" or a "jew for jesus" and still be more of target for extermination than a convert. If you were so much as a quarter jew, you were still screwed. If you were a convert, you could save yourself.

So this might be today why so many people including myself and other jews and even more gentiles have come to define jewish as more ethnic than religious. If anyone has any thoughts contradicting what I said I would be more than happy to hear them and discuss this mild hypothesis of mine.

the French artist Max Jacob, who converted to catholicism prior to the ascent of the nazis, was deported to a concentration camp, where he died.

"Born in Quimper, Brittany, France, he enrolled in the Paris Colonial School, which he left in 1897 for an artistic career. On the Boulevard Voltaire, he shared a room with Pablo Picasso, who introduced him to Guillaume Apollinaire, who in turn introduced him to Georges Braque. He would become close friends with Jean Cocteau, Christopher Wood and Amedeo Modigliani, who painted his portrait in 1916. He also befriended and encouraged the artist Romanin, other wise known as French politician and future Resistance leader Jean Moulin. Jacob, who had Jewish origins, claimed to have had a vision of Christ in 1909, and converted to Catholicism [...] Eventually he would be forced to move to Saint-Benoît-sur-Loire, Loiret, where he was hiding during the German occupation of World War II. Jewish by birth, Jacob’s brother was deported to Auschwitz and then his sister Mirthé-Léa and her husband were deported where they were murdered by the Nazis. On February 24, 1944 Max Jacob too was arrested by the Gestapo and put into Orléans prison. He was then transferred to a holding camp in Drancy for transport to a concentration camp in Germany. However, said to be suffering from bronchial pneumonia, Max Jacob died in the Drancy deportation camp on March 5th".

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Jacob

[dukeofpain]

prose said:

Drooper,
I was thinking Melnorme's comment was a subtle a dig at DukeofPain.

Yes. I know you jews hate Germans, Ukrainians, and Poles so much that when they're defended you're offended by "anti-semitism" that has to be present becuase of it. The same way setting yourself in opposition to "respectable" and "honest" luminaries like Abraham Foxman or Simon Weisenthal, also labels you anti-semititic, regardless of the contention. And of course, the assertation that anti-zionism = anti-semitism, scratch that, any distaste in Israeli policy = anti-semitism.

Yes, I'm sure, it's beyond doubt I am, whatever it means? as there are so many different roads in getting there.

[syriano]

people need to know that anti-zionism doesn't equal anti-semitism. there are jews who are anti-zionist. however, when people questions Israel, they are automatically labeled as anti-semitic

[zathuras]

syriano said:

people need to know that anti-zionism doesn't equal anti-semitism. there are jews who are anti-zionist. however, when people questions Israel, they are automatically labeled as anti-semitic

I think anti-zionism is just as bad as anti-semitism since its coming from David Duke and Syria supports this man. I judge movements by their loudest leaders. If Syria welcomes this former leader of the KKK, then I say anti-zionism is a branch of traditional anti semitism. White supremacists always refer to themselves as anti-zionists. There really though isn't much difference between the two movements. Just different labels. Nobody wants to be labeled an anti semite or they will lose credibility with the general public. So they choose to call themselves anti zionist which is just a cover for David Duke. This white supremacist is endorsed by syria, I think that speaks volumes.

[syriano]

I don't know about David Duke or his movement. I am talking about anti-zionism as a term. hidden intentions is something else.
as I said, there are Jews who are anti-zionist. plus lets face it, there are many legitimate reasons to question Israel. (I don't want to get into this discussion though)

[zathuras]

syriano said:

I don't know about David Duke or his movement. I am talking about anti-zionism as a term. hidden intentions is something else.
as I said, there are Jews who are anti-zionist. plus lets face it, there are many legitimate reasons to question Israel. (I don't want to get into this discussion though)

Let me put it this way. Anti-zionism is a movement embraced by white supremacists, neo-nazis, al-qaeda, hizbollah, Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Libya, North Korea, and yes sadly even some jewish intellectuals and by every othere country with totalitarian regimes and human rights abuses. Is it anti-semitism? I don't know. These are only labels. But I don't want to follow a movement that characters like David Duke or regimes like Iran or terrorist organizations like Al-Qaeda embrace.

And Neturei Karta can go straight to hell, they met with hizbollah which kills their credibility.

[syriano]

dude of course Syria is anti-zionist
we are at a state of war with Israel. and I believe you have some Syrian land to returrn ;D
finally, people question the state of Israel because the way it was created and is run is 'scandalous'..

ok look I really don't want to get into politcal discusion about this subject, so forget about it

I don't know how David Duke was welcomed in Syria, but it is wrong to welcome him as a political speaker.

[zathuras]

syriano said:

dude of course Syria is anti-zionist
we are at a state of war with Israel. and I believe you have some Syrian land to returrn ;D
finally, people question the state of Israel because the way it was created and is run is 'scandalous'..

ok look I really don't want to get into politcal discusion about this subject, so forget about it

I don't know how David Duke was welcomed in Syria, but it is wrong to welcome him as a political speaker.

I'm not Israeli I am american. I'm not really a cheerleader for Israel either. I have no investment in it.

Its not that I really care for Israel or want to live there, I am more anti-Iran, anti-Saudi Arabia, anti-Islamist, anti-nazism, and anti-pan arab

I hate the beheadings of Saudi Arabia and I hate the hangings of little girls from cranes in Iran. I think both of these countries are barbaric. Syria I don't know much about your country except for the fact that the Asads make Sharon look like a saint no matter how you look at it do you disagree with my assesment?

[zathuras]

One thing I never understood, if Israel treats its oriental jewish populations so badly like anti-zionists claim, then why haven't they left Israel and returned to their arab brothers to partake in pan-arabism and the destruction of Israel? Why haven't all the Jews returned to Yemen, Syria, or Iraq if Israel is so wickedly evil? Has Israel tricked them all into staying somehow? ;D

[syriano]

I disagree
for first reply

One thing I never understood, if Israel treats its oriental jewish populations so badly like anti-zionists claim,

nobody claims this .
The issue is mostly with the non-middle eastern jews