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Post by Crimson Guard on Jun 14, 2005 17:51:04 GMT -5
Bert,I dont know what kindve of Italian you claim to be..but your certainly off your rocker...
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Post by mike2 on Jun 14, 2005 18:27:02 GMT -5
Southern Europe and North Africa have been Mediterranean zones since time immemorial. Speaking of predominately blond Greek or Italian populations is just silly and unrealistic.
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Post by Crimson Guard on Jun 14, 2005 18:45:11 GMT -5
He sounds like a Lega Nordicist...so what can you expect?
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Post by Ponto Hardbottle on Jun 14, 2005 22:27:56 GMT -5
. A very last consideration : the Dori , the ancient , people of Sparta are believed to have been Germans and the soldiers of Alexander the Great , who were Macedonians , were predominantly blond . They were Greeks . Why the two thirds of romans that were indoeuropeans , should have been different ? Just a question . THE DORIANS WERE GERMANS ACCORDING TO WHOM ? HITLER? THE MACEDONIANS WERE BLONDE? ACCORDING TO WHO? U NEED TO GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT DUDE... Please don't use capitals. It is very annoying and one of the signs of trolls. I have just read some of berts' posts which I missed. He is an Engineer! That explains a lot. Engineering is like the ugly sister of the muses, mathematics and sciences, the runt of the pack. Yes, scientists and mathematicians have their hierarachy and prejudice.
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Post by bert on Jun 15, 2005 12:40:43 GMT -5
Don' t talk about Lega Nordicists , don' t talk about what you don' t understand and you don' t know , first of all . I thought this forum was useful to exchange informations , I mean serious informations . Sorry , my mistake . My point of view was that a large mix has taken place in the past , mainly in southern europe ( but surely nothing has come from africa as genetic evidence shows ) . History agrees with this . Take a book and read about who settled here before the romans and after the romans . Before them all those celtic peoples that spoke lepontic and then gaulish , and after them the Langobardi ( take a look at the '' Historia Langobardorum '' by Paolus Diaconus - real name : Varnefrido , one belonging to that group ) . If you have just another moment take also a look at the Goti or Goths I believe you say in english and where they settled with their migrations ( the ostrogoths to be more precise ). Ah ................. but history is all made up , I forgot . So................................ go on measuring skulls and pay attention to not loose a centimeter , it could be a disaster . Macedonians are said to have had the look I told by a serious scientific television program by one of the most famous scientific journalists here , besides another well known archeologist . Perhaps they lose one centimeter when measuring their heads .
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Post by Platypus on Jun 15, 2005 13:24:08 GMT -5
Britain has loads of black and very dark brown haired and brown eyed people, ... and Italy has millions of light brown, mixed green-brown eyed and blue eyed types, and that's all. Few countries in Europe are uniform under this aspect. You simply cannot walk up to a dark Englishman in the street and saying 'hey I bet that your ancestors in the Neolithic were Iberian' or going to a blond Italian drinking wine outside a bar and saying ' aah you must be a Kelt, shouldn't you be drinking beer?' : ;D
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Post by bert on Jun 15, 2005 14:14:34 GMT -5
Just a last consideration: the kelts were used to drink wine as they bought millions of liters ( obviuosly they used another unit to measure weight . I specify this because I' m sure you could say it' s false as they didn' t use the liter ) . They were used to bought it from the romans giving in exchange .....slaves , that were most often other kelts belonging to other tribes . Always by.................the same scientific tv program named '' Quark '' , that tries to explain phisics ( but it is not simply to explain to anyone ) and also biology and often history . I am not a nordicist as you believe . I just look at my face sometimes and try to explain to myself where it comes from . I believe it comes from the story of my own land that is the region just south of the alps . And history agrees and tells me that the ancient tradition of burning fires in the fields on the 6th of december is a celtic one as well is a celtic one the tradition to put skulls made of stone inside holes made for that at the upper angles of entering to home doors . This is still made 100 km southern than where I live in a little town . Ant it resembles what the kelts were used to do . But they were used to do that with humans skulls as..........they were head cutters ............always by the same tv program . At least those kelts living here . Ah , in the north eastern part of the peninsula i.e. where I live , medium height is 1.76 cm , 2.5 cm higher than everywhere else in the country . Besides the fact that we are well known in the whole peninsula to be '' heavy drinkers '' ( not me ) and so described by all the others here that are used to go very slow with drinks ..............., where do you believe all this come from ? A very last remark : I ' m not a nordicist . I just like to point up that things are not so obvious and large mixtures of different peoples have occured somewhere . And when someone writes of Lega , please inform yourself about what the immigrants from the south have taken here and what they are , before talking of nordicists or something like that . The Lega movement has nothing to do with nordicism or whatsoever . The name comes from the Lega Lombarda , a coalition made up by northern minicipalities that put themselves together in order to defeat Frederic '' the red beard '' , Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire , that was used to ask large tributes to us . He was first defeated and was only able to save himself by a miracle trowing himself in the waters of the Adda river , but then returned with an army that was ten times larger than the Lega' s one , and eventually re-established order in the land that was the most turbulent inside his empire.
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Post by Platypus on Jun 15, 2005 14:38:59 GMT -5
Thanks for info bout Kelts in N.Italy. One curiosity As a Northern Italian, would you consider yourself tending towards more a Central European looking type? (Alpine-Nordic-Dinaric) or Southern European? (Mediterranean...think of Modugno..... or Coarse Mediterranean, think all the chunky guys from any M.Scorsese movie or The Soprano's)
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Post by bert on Jun 15, 2005 15:52:40 GMT -5
I' ve got a straight thin nose and a face probably related to the german peoples that settled here , although my complexion is less pale . As for what I know , blondism is recessive as to maintain it , it is needed to have both parents so , and here it is much easier to have at least one dark haired . But , what I have read once is that face itself tells your story . Pay attention that I don' t believe much in all those theories that consist of measuring skulls , but anyway as I live near the Garda Lake and I see millions germans in summer here , being able to recognize them also when they are dark haired , dark eyed , I have to believe that typologies of different faces linked to different peoples , exist . That' s the same reason why I am 95 % of times able to recognize immigrants from southern regions of the peninsula . The faces you see in martin scorsese' s films are theirs . I believe this is linked to history as the etimology of most of southern last names is from latin or greek , while here it is linked to german besides latin . Some examples ? Last name Aldegheri is from german Adel+another term that I don' t remember . Adel meant noble and ''adalingi'' were the nobles among the Langobardi . But a lot of last names ending in ...erle , share the same origin : Ederle , Pozzerle ( the double z was probably once tz in the original german speech ) and others ending differently . German tv , has made a program two, three years ago about the ancient german dialect spoken in the mountain around verona . Once they believed it was , what had remained of the speech of the ''Cimbri'' ( really it is due to immigration from bavaria that occurred largely later ) a german people that had the very bad idea to invade northern italy too before the roman empire began to vacillate . All killed by the hand of roman general Marius in the battle of '' Campi Raudi '' that no one has yet understood where to place , if in the province of verona or in that of asti . A consideration about the romans . I often read about the causes of their fall . It seems that the Huns coming west , made all the german tribes escape and not to be suppressed by the Huns they eventually caused the fall of rome . See the history of the Goths that are claimed to have been the first to settle inside the territory of the Empire ( after asking to the romans ) in order to be protected from the Huns , but eventually ended to cause the fall of the romans . I can just tell what I have learned watching the '' quark'' program . The romans ( which I don' t like so much ) , made up an empire that lasted in western europe more than 500 years and much more in eastern europe . At the very beginning , they were spending almost their whole lives in the army , from 15 y.o. to 35 y.o. , if I don' t remember badly . They had superior organization , not fisical supremacy . They largly resemble the american army of nowadays . imo . A cinical superior way of making war with regards to that age . In that program , a lot interesting has been told about the Legions , but I can' t tell anything here . Too long . Just want to tell that it was the first time the italian tv went on a serious historical argument as they prefer to leave history where it stands , not to tell the italians they may be largely differrent . And with regards to that cinical way of making war , I believe they fell by themselves as at the end in the legions almost anyone was not roman , and paid to fight . It is also untrue , that the Huns were never defeated . Attila and the Huns were defeated by an army made by romans ( in the middle of the battle field to substain the push of the huns ) and goths ( at both sides ) . It was in France . Attila was defaeted , but general Ezius didn' t want to kill him , perhaps because he was grown up by the huns as he was given as hostage to them when he was a young boy . It was a usage of that time ................ Don' t want to annoy you any more .
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Post by Platypus on Jun 16, 2005 17:03:48 GMT -5
I've heard too about mysterious words in some dialects of remote areas of Veneto mountains that have been variously ascribed to Kelts, Germans or eventhe misteriuos Rhaeti. I know a girl from up there who nevertheless half Apulian looks uncannily north european.
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Post by bert on Jun 17, 2005 2:02:34 GMT -5
The words coming from German as well as the last names are nothing misterious . There' s an etnografic museum in the mountain in a place called Giazza ( Jetzen in dialect ) showing a lot of things of those immingrants from bavaria . But the german names are not limited to persons . Also the places whose names are of german origin are a lot , besides those of roman one and celtic too . Garda is from the german language of the Langobardi or Langbarden . The romans called the lake Benacus , not Garda lake . There' s a wine named Bardolino that takes its name from a town on the lake . It is from german Bardilo . Bergamo is from german too ( berg means mountain in german speeches ) . Etc , Etc . It' s history . Nothing misterious , but well known . With regards to the girl , I bet her father is apulian and her mother is from....here . Just a bet .
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Post by Tautamus on Jul 7, 2005 10:26:47 GMT -5
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Post by eastanglian on Dec 21, 2005 13:13:02 GMT -5
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Post by Evan1211 on Dec 21, 2005 15:29:08 GMT -5
He looks like my grandfather in his younger days. My dad's whole side of the family look like that (British and Irish).
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Post by stella22 on Dec 21, 2005 18:20:33 GMT -5
People never bring up British Kate Winslet when talking about dark British people. I don't know why as she looks more Med to me than Catherine Zeta Jones. IMO she is a great example of a coarse med. --her hair is obviously lightened.
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