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Post by gelaye on May 1, 2005 15:50:32 GMT -5
Why do some British Islanders have dark features almost spanish - they have lost their tan obviously due to centuries living in an overcast environment but they have dark shiny hair and dark eyebrows and eyes (maybe some have blue eyes?)
anyone can explain this?
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Post by mike2 on May 1, 2005 16:07:24 GMT -5
Atlanto-Mediterranean. Done and done.
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Post by gelaye on May 1, 2005 16:33:30 GMT -5
whats that lol
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Post by NuSapiens on May 1, 2005 17:08:21 GMT -5
This topic seems to be endlessly fascinating for some reason.
British populations are closely related (as shown by Y chromosome) to people that moved north from Iberia (Spain) at some point. These Iberian Brits were later subject to invasions from the Central Europe and Northern Europe, which has changed the complexion of the isles.
Darker Brits are probably just phenotypical remnants of the Iberian (R1b) folk stock, but that is just a guess, albeit a scientifically informed one.
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Post by mike2 on May 1, 2005 19:31:31 GMT -5
Indeed, a guess, but still the most likely reason.
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Post by Crimson Guard on May 1, 2005 23:01:49 GMT -5
this Iberian thign is way over used.
Wasnt the atlanto-med race from neolithic peoples,which they wouldve been from north Africa via Arabia/middle East?
I also believe that the darker types may be from the Roman occupation from Italians,and their was also a high level of North Africans slaves and Auxiliaries stationed their.Aswel as the Sarmatians Auxilaries who where Indo-Iranian people.
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Post by Evan1211 on May 2, 2005 17:25:40 GMT -5
I think it has to do with the native (way back 10,000y/a) population (ProtoEuropean- I guess that is the Iberians discussed earlier). I have always been interested in this since I am one of "them." I guess that in certain areas, the Nordic and Alpish strains were never really absorbed by the original people. I would love to see some genetic studies done specifically in N. Africa, Iberia, and the British Isles and see their comparisons. It would be very helpful and interesting.
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Post by Drooperdoo on May 5, 2005 9:12:23 GMT -5
Evan, The genetic studies you wish for HAVE been done. Geneticists found that almost no gene-flow occurred between North Africa and Spain [reasoning that the Strait of Gibraltar was a remarkably efficient barrier]. Hitherto, it had always been assumed that Basques were somehow Berbers that sailed north. Not so. As to the Basques, however--- Their Y-chromosome was identical to the Y-chromosomes found among the Welsh, Irish and Scottish. So, in short, the Atlanto-Mediterranean type is paleolithic European; i.e., Basque. So those Britons with darker traits are in no way, shape or form "North Africans," as one of the posters here suggested, or descendants of Roman soldiers. Italian dna is vastly different from Basque dna. And the geneticists were unanimous--it was Basque dna that formed the base platform of the early gene pool of the British Isles. Here's an article from msnbc on the genetic tests which definitively link Irish and Welsh dna to Basques. msnbc.msn.com/id/5955701/
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Post by Zapiens on May 11, 2005 11:00:42 GMT -5
The Atlantic Modal Haplotype. Genetic Evidence For Different Male and Female Roles During Cultural Transitions in the British Isles, James F. Wilson, et al, published Proceedings National Academy of Science, U S A., April 24, 2001. www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/98/9/5078A more recent paper – ‘Grouping of Y-STR haplotypes discloses European geographic clines’, Gusmao, L. et al. Forensic Science International 134 (2003) pp.172-179
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Post by slick on May 29, 2005 13:47:49 GMT -5
Would American Idol judge Simon Cowell be an obvious example of the Atlanto-Mediterranean type of Briton? If not him, which Briton celebs would be?
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Post by mike2 on May 29, 2005 14:22:21 GMT -5
I don't know about Simon... my first instinct is yeah, but then again I'm only banking on his dark pigmentation and that's not a very scientific thing to do. He could just as well be a dark Brunn for all I know. It's hard to tell because I'm not that experienced in hairsplitting racial types. A good example of a British Atlanto-Med is Ava Gardner. Usually Catherine Zeta-Jones is used when describing British Meds, but I want to be different. Ioan Gruffud, a Welshman, is another good example that comes to mind. It's important to realize though that the Atlantid of Britain is a residual type. Many of them would pass as Iberians in Spain or Portugal, sure, I guess, but most would not as far as I can tell. Most of them look like dark northern Europeans, with black hair, blue eyes, and pale skin being the normal pigmentation composition.
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Post by mike2 on May 29, 2005 14:34:12 GMT -5
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Post by mike2 on May 29, 2005 14:39:48 GMT -5
Yeah, but I wasn't being specific about it.
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Post by Crimson Guard on May 29, 2005 14:47:50 GMT -5
wheres Dudley moore?
Ian McShane and Gabrial Burn are good irish examples.
Bob Hoskins I wouldve like to used,but he's a british gypsy.
Timothy Dalton the 2nd greatest Bond I think is a near perfect example of an Atlanto-med..But he's also part Italian as is Adrian Paul( of highlander fame) who is half Italian too.
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Post by mike2 on May 29, 2005 14:57:02 GMT -5
Actually I think he is more of a Brunn. I mean, look how rugged he is.
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