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Post by mike2 on May 29, 2005 15:23:38 GMT -5
Northern European Brunns are popularly defined as unreduced, partly brachycephalized, and mostly depigmented Upper Palaeolithic survivors of Cromagnoid affiliation, distinguished by: - tallness
- broad shoulders
- large-headedness
- big bones
- heavy musculature
- mesocephaly to sub-brachycephaly for Irish type; extreme dolichocephaly for Scandinavian type
- high and broad forehead
- wide face
- some prognathy in the Irish type
- wide malars
- deep and broad lower jaw
- prominent, typically clefted chin
- ruggedly masculine features in males, often with pronounced browridges and and deep jaws
- females seldom as correspondingly rugged
- round features and large breasts in females
- moderately large, mesorrhine to leptorrhine nose
- straight nose in profile, with a concave minority
- tip of nose somewhat thick and frequently upturned
- large mouth
- deeply drawn lines around the oral cavity
- moderately thick lips which are a little everted
- characteristically long and convex upper lip
- typically freckled, very fair skin that does not easily tan
- brown and wavy hair, often rufous in the Irish type, which is stereotyped for its red-headedness
- curly hair in Irish type but not common in Scandinavian type
- light-mixed blue eyed majority
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Post by Ponto Hardbottle on May 29, 2005 22:14:25 GMT -5
Brunns, and Borrebies are very lateral, stockily built. It is not just a big face and cranium. I have lived in England for some years. I found the English to be a very mixed group but the dark element is not that obvious. Most English people look like the people in nearby countries across the North Sea. Actually the Scots, Welsh and Irish are darker than the English. Not surprising that Connery, Brosnan, KZ Jones, Byrne and McShane have been mentioned. All "Celts". There is a real physical difference between the Sassanachs or Seison and the other British and Irish types.
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Post by mike2 on May 29, 2005 22:19:16 GMT -5
Yes, I think it would be interesting to see what physical types predominated in England before the arrival of Saxons and Vikings and Normans. I would assume the Brunn and Paleoatlantid would reign supreme.
It was generally assumed that the Keltic Nordic type was brought to England by Celtic invaders, but considering the theory of a major Celtic migration has been shown to be a myth, perhaps the Keltic Nordic type was brought by the Anglo-Saxons. Or perhaps it was already present in Britain. I don't know.
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Post by ginojda on May 30, 2005 1:50:14 GMT -5
How about Orlando Bloom? Is he too one of those dark Atlantid brits? He always looked very Spanish/Italian to me.
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Post by mike2 on May 30, 2005 11:31:34 GMT -5
IMO, the two examples shown by Henerte are far from being Brunn types. Yeah, knowing that those two guys are Polish, I agree. The Brunn type doesn't extend to Eastern Europe.
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Post by Cerdic on May 31, 2005 3:07:28 GMT -5
Brunns, and Borrebies are very lateral, stockily built. It is not just a big face and cranium. I have lived in England for some years. I found the English to be a very mixed group but the dark element is not that obvious. Most English people look like the people in nearby countries across the North Sea. Actually the Scots, Welsh and Irish are darker than the English. Not surprising that Connery, Brosnan, KZ Jones, Byrne and McShane have been mentioned. All "Celts". There is a real physical difference between the Sassanachs or Seison and the other British and Irish types. This is not really as clear-cut as it might seem. Firstly eye and hair colour are particularly unlinked in Britain, the Irish who are amongst the darkest haired of the peoples of the British Isles are also amongst the lightest eyed. A study from the late 1940s showed a clear gradation of eye colour frequency in Britain; the highest frequencies of light eyes were found in the Orkneys, followed by mainland Scotland, the lowest were found in Wales and Southern England. Even South-east England and East Anglia had significantly more dark eyes than either Scotland or Ireland. Given that East Anglia, Kent and Sussex were amongst the first areas to show Anglo-Saxon cultural artifacts, and East Anglia formed Guthrum's Viking kingdom this is distinctly odd. This is not at all what would be expected if either the Anglo-Saxons or Vikings were (a) particularly "Nordic" or (b) had arrived in particularly large numbers. In regard to facial features and head shape, I would not be able to tell the English from the northern French and Belgians, the Dutch have a higher proprtion of recognisably "foreign" facial types and the Germans are even more different. At the risk of being somewhat non-PC, the difference in appearance of the British and Germans was noted in both World Wars by the typical British nickname for the Germans:"Squareheads." Some dark English (or English-born actors) to even the score: Bob Hope Charlie Chaplin Cary Grant James Mason Laurence Olivier Daniel Day Lewis Colin Firth
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Post by Ponto Hardbottle on May 31, 2005 9:11:08 GMT -5
I did not mention eye color. Eye color considered by itself is not particularly relevent. I was referring to populations not individuals. The Irish, Scots and Welsh are darker haired than the English. The English tend to look more typical of NW Europeans whereas the Celtic fringers look generally more closer to West Europeans along the Atantic strip of Europe, Atlanto-Meds, Atlantids or whatever name you refer. The Brunn element is found in England as well as Ireland or Scotland. The "disharmony" of having dark hair with blue eyes is more typical of the Irish and Scots than the English who tend to have with light hair with blue eyes and dark hair with dark eyes. I am sure Scandinavians can tell most Norwegians from Swedes or Danes. It is only natural to become attuned to the differences in phenotype that results from separated breeding populations and it is natural for separated breeding populations to produce phenotypic differences. That said, the peoples of West Europe share much of the same progenitor subraces or ethnic groups and look more like each other than they would with Southern or Eastern Europeans. As far as Anglo-Saxons, Danes, Belgae, former Iceni, that is all history and as it is known, most history is 90% imaginative.
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Post by Platypus on May 31, 2005 10:00:27 GMT -5
The majority of British adult 'white' men are 1)Dark Brown haired, with 2)Light Brown hair coming second and a 3) 'rich' Mid -Brown with reddish shades third. 4) Pure Blonde and Ginger are seen often but so its pure Black. Most light tones will be seen in Children and artificially on Women.
Regional variation points towards an Increase of Darker tones (and of Reddish ones) in the so-called Celtic fringe, but this doesn't make all Englishmen lighter, all Scots Ginger and all the Welsh Dark
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Post by Ponto Hardbottle on May 31, 2005 10:19:33 GMT -5
You guys are quite odd. Did I say that all English as blue eyed blonds or all Irish black haired or all Scots ginger haired. I was referring to populations not individuals. And are you saying that dark brown in English terms is equivalent to that near black, dark brown found in the South of Europe? I am telling you, English dark brown is not the same as Italian dark brown or Greek dark brown. In fact a large number of Scandinavians have that same kind of dark brown hair as the English. It might surprise some of you but lots of Irish and Scots are black haired. Black hair is not common among the English unless their name is Singh. It sounds you are using inexact terminology to describe hair color and making dark brown equivalent in every country in Europe. It isn't.
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Post by Evan1211 on May 31, 2005 15:35:49 GMT -5
Would my dad and I be considered Brunn? People have classified me and my dad as well as Brunn. We are British-Irish, and fit the description, except are short, have extremely sloped foreheads (almost 45 degrees!!), and do tan easily (no freckles at all, and never burn even in the middle of summer.) What do you think?
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Post by Cerdic on Jun 1, 2005 4:17:14 GMT -5
I did not mention eye color. Eye color considered by itself is not particularly relevent. I was referring to populations not individuals. The Irish, Scots and Welsh are darker haired than the English. The English tend to look more typical of NW Europeans whereas the Celtic fringers look generally more closer to West Europeans along the Atantic strip of Europe, Atlanto-Meds, Atlantids or whatever name you refer. The Brunn element is found in England as well as Ireland or Scotland. The "disharmony" of having dark hair with blue eyes is more typical of the Irish and Scots than the English who tend to have with light hair with blue eyes and dark hair with dark eyes. I am sure Scandinavians can tell most Norwegians from Swedes or Danes. It is only natural to become attuned to the differences in phenotype that results from separated breeding populations and it is natural for separated breeding populations to produce phenotypic differences. That said, the peoples of West Europe share much of the same progenitor subraces or ethnic groups and look more like each other than they would with Southern or Eastern Europeans. As far as Anglo-Saxons, Danes, Belgae, former Iceni, that is all history and as it is known, most history is 90% imaginative. If, as we seem to be, we are discussing "why are some British dark-looking?", then eye and indeed skin colour would be relevant. Skin colour is probably the least variable, most Britons are pale skinned with high levels of ruddy complexions. Olive compexions are very rare indeed and sallow or swarthy are in a very definite minority. Though light eyes and dark hair are combinations found in excess in Ireland and to a lesser extent Scotland the type is relatively common in the whole of Britain. My grandmother's family which came from a village in Buckinghamshire were uniformally black-haired with light grey or blue eyes.
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Post by Platypus on Jun 1, 2005 6:25:49 GMT -5
Would my dad and I be considered Brunn? People have classified me and my dad as well as Brunn. What do you think? Mainly Brunn but to a certain extent. Most of 'Brunn' types are derivative rather than 'pure' 'Irish Brunn' types in Britain are relatively common, nevertheless the pale skinned and freckled type of 'Brunn' is still more typical of Ireland, were maybe the racial mix has been so far more uniform. Actors Robbie Coltrane and Nick Brimble are two different examples of 'British Brunn' types. In Your example. I certainly see elements usually associated with the 'Brunn' stereotypes, In Britain, Ireland and the US. I would classify your dad as a 'rugged' Keltic type.
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Post by amksa on Jun 1, 2005 7:57:30 GMT -5
I don't know about Simon... my first instinct is yeah, but then again I'm only banking on his dark pigmentation and that's not a very scientific thing to do. He could just as well be a dark Brunn for all I know. It's hard to tell because I'm not that experienced in hairsplitting racial types. even in Morocco this guy would be observed with suspicion.. this man looks exactely like an old man i knew, Lyazid who came from a village where blacks Berbers were numerous. i would classify the man, on the pic, "Aferfaz" : nor white, nor black ! and i think that mister Connery could be the epitome of what exactely looks a real Berber caïd ! hahaha. is that normal ?
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Post by eufrenio on Jun 1, 2005 8:06:09 GMT -5
even in Morocco this guy would be observed with suspicion.. this man looks exactely like an old man i knew, Lyazid who came from a village where blacks Berbers were numerous. i would classify the man, on the pic, "Aferfaz" : nor white, nor black ! I can´t see anything remotely Negroid in Simon Cowell!
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Post by Evan1211 on Jun 1, 2005 14:38:08 GMT -5
Platypus, What is the rugged Keltic type gentically derived from? I was looking on the Races of Europe plates and my dad actually looks alot like that Keltic Irish guy with extremely rugged features (Im sure that you've seen the picture) that everyone puts up. Do I exhibit a Keltic, Brunn, or just plain mixed British Isles phenotype. Also, if the Keltic and Brunn strains usually have a ruddy complection, then where would the more brownish- yellow complection of my dad and I come from? Just some food for thought to put out there to you guys.
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