why are some british 'dark' looking

[bert]

A lot of things are misbelieved . I didn' t say the romans defined some of the peoples they found on the british isles and which they called Picti , as Iberians . They wrote that those Picti were short and dark , resembling the Iberians . They couldn' t provide genetic studies to explore if those Picti were related to the Iberians or not , and I think they weren' t interested in doing this had they got that possibility that we have now . They just described them fisically . Just another observation : romans are said to have been dark . It depends on what romans I believe . The building of rome began 500 years before than commonly believed as recent findings in that area have established . Two thirds of those early inhabitants were indoeuropeans and one third etruscans . So the blond type existed there also . Although , mixed with etruscans , long time later you find that Commodus was very tall , with long golden blond hair . And he was not the only one . A very last consideration : the Dori , the ancient , people of Sparta are believed to have been Germans and the soldiers of Alexander the Great , who were Macedonians , were predominantly blond . They were Greeks . Why the two thirds of romans that were indoeuropeans , should have been different ? Just a question .

[Ponto Hardbottle]

It sounds to me that you have some really strong beliefs about who the Indo-Europeans were, what the Etruscans were, what Commodus lookedd like, the Picti.....Why don't you write a book? I am sure we all need a good laugh. Erich von Danken of the Indo-Europeans.
Unlike you, I don't share your beliefs. There is no proof about anything you said. And I am not going to put any credence in the anecdotal references of some Roman who probably never been to Britain or seen a real live Picti.

[Trog]

bert said:

A lot of things are misbelieved . I didn' t say the romans defined some of the peoples they found on the british isles and which they called Picti , as Iberians . They wrote that those Picti were short and dark , resembling the Iberians . They couldn' t provide genetic studies to explore if those Picti were related to the Iberians or not , and I think they weren' t interested in doing this had they got that possibility that we have now . They just described them fisically . Just another observation : romans are said to have been dark . It depends on what romans I believe . The building of rome began 500 years before than commonly believed as recent findings in that area have established . Two thirds of those early inhabitants were indoeuropeans and one third etruscans . So the blond type existed there also . Although , mixed with etruscans , long time later you find that Commodus was very tall , with long golden blond hair . And he was not the only one . A very last consideration : the Dori , the ancient , people of Sparta are believed to have been Germans and the soldiers of Alexander the Great , who were Macedonians , were predominantly blond . They were Greeks . Why the two thirds of romans that were indoeuropeans , should have been different ? Just a question .

Again, it was Tacitus in describing the Silures, a Celtic tribe from Wales, as resembling the Iberians:

the swarthy faces of the Silures, the curly quality, in general, of their hair, and the position of Spain opposite their shores, attest the passage of Iberians in old days and the occupation by them of these districts; ..." (Tacitus Annales Xi.ii, translated by M. Hutton)

Also, the Romans did invade lowland Scotland and occupied it for 200 years. They did not manage all of Scotland though, the Highlands defended themselves and eventually managed to drive the Romans out of Scotland (note, there was no Scotland at this time, only Britain).

[bert]

Dear Ponto Hardbottle or whatever your name is , you say I seem to have very strong beliefs . Perhaps I tend to believe more to what has been written by Julius Caesar , Tacitus , Strabo etc . than at what you say . When you will be named Julius Caesar , perhaps I will listen to you too . I have translated directly from latin parts of the '' De bello Gallico '' by Julius Caesar and I suppose you did the same . So I don' t write a book , just because reading it you could laugh of yourself . Stay up Mr. Ponto , historians and genetists may need your help .

[Ponto Hardbottle]

I doubt that Tacitus ever visited Britain. Wales was part of the Roman Empire. Funny how the Silures disappear from history except for Tacitus. Scotland wasn't really Roman. Lowland Scotland is where the Anglo-Saxons ended up probably as they were the ones who could defend it. The Picti did not live there. I think you are putting too much credibility on the writings of Tacitus. History is 90% maded-up. bert, I bet I known more about history than you. I wouldn't have stated as you seem to have that the Indo-Europeans were blond headed or that the Romans and Macedonians being IE speakers were blond headed or that the Etruscans being non IE speakers were all swarthy or jet black haired. I have seen their artworks, mostly they are in the ancient style, white women, red brown men, seen from side view. Their drawings look like cartoons even the blond haired ones sitting at banquets in their tombs. That stuff about Sparta was complete tripe. Why don't you just come out and state your prejudices without beating bushes. You trying to be erudite or genuine irritates.

[bert]

Hey , Ponto .....a last thing : search for the fisical description of Commodus in internet . Search under the voice Gladiator , you will find , hoping you are able to , how it looookkked like . His description is by an american professor teaching in an american university . He made up a site in order to tell everyone what are the mainly historical mistakes of that film . Unless you know more than him , and I' m sure about this , as I' m sure you translated from latin the fisical description of Nero ( flavo capillo ..............blond of hair ) , perhaps you will enrich your already very vast knowledge . Please , Mr. Lagrange or Bernoulli ( two great French mathematicians that you surely know I suppose given your large brain ) , try doing what I want to suggest to you now : read .

[mike2]

Everyone shut up. This I command.

[bert]

Ponto , given that you are online , a very last and short answer . I don' t try to be erudite as I don' t need to . I am an engineer , not an historian , but having translated for 8 years from latin and having been quite good in doing that , perhaps something ''historical'' has remained , besides the unchanged capacity of translating that ''wonderful'' died language . Keep in mind that , although english is said to be a german language , it shares 60% ( in my opinion more ) of words with altin . And the construction of the period is also equal . Latin is inside English even where you don' t suspect . Scissors for example is from latin verb Scindo, scindis , scissi , scissum , scindere . 3rd coniugation . Such a construction : ''I heard him say...........bla , bla , bla ''..... is the latin infinitive . Lastly ..................the blond phenotype of macedonian soldiers is asserted on italian tv by archeologists that are well known....and they were greeks . Perhaps , I ' m unerudited and history is totally made up , but at least I have said what I had to say . Anyway I didn' t want to offend anyone .

[Trog]

holyjesus said:

I doubt that Tacitus ever visited Britain. Wales was part of the Roman Empire. Funny how the Silures disappear from history except for Tacitus. Scotland wasn't really Roman. Lowland Scotland is where the Anglo-Saxons ended up probably as they were the ones who could defend it. The Picti did not live there. I think you are putting too much credibility on the writings of Tacitus. History is 90% maded-up. bert, I bet I known more about history than you. I wouldn't have stated as you seem to have that the Indo-Europeans were blond headed or that the Romans and Macedonians being IE speakers were blond headed or that the Etruscans being non IE speakers were all swarthy or jet black haired. I have seen their artworks, mostly they are in the ancient style, white women, red brown men, seen from side view. Their drawings look like cartoons even the blond haired ones sitting at banquets in their tombs. That stuff about Sparta was complete tripe. Why don't you just come out and state your prejudices without beating bushes. You trying to be erudite or genuine irritates.

Tacitus' source for British affairs was his father-in-law, Agricola, who was governor of Britain for several years. Silures didn't 'disappear' from history books either as Bede and other writers would also refer to them. The Welsh had established a kingdom of Britons stretching from Wales to Strathclyde. Anglo-Saxons arrived after the Roman occupation and it was Britons who would flee to Scotland and Wales in order to escape the marauding Anglo-Saxons who were invading England. Anglo-Saxons would layer occupy south eastern Scotland, with the south west going to Strathclyde Britons, north west the Scotti from Ireland and north east, the Picts. It was the joining of these people that would go on to defend Scotland from Anglo-Saxons who were the attackers of Scotland, not the defenders.

Since you consider 90% of history contrived, exactly where do you gather you research? From which sources, Poncho?

[MC anunnaki]

mike2 said:

Everyone shut up. This I command.

Are you wheezing now, Darth Mike? ;D

[mike2]

anunnaki said:

Are you wheezing now, Darth Mike? ;D

You don't know the power of the dark side!

[MC anunnaki]

Come, Nordicists. Feel the power of the swarthoid side... *wheez*

[Ponto Hardbottle]

mike2 said:

anunnaki said:

Are you wheezing now, Darth Mike? ;D

You don't know the power of the dark side!

Love that. I can picture James Earl Jones saying that. Also "Luke, I am your father", fantastic voice. See race mixing isn't so bad as he is negroid, caucasoid (Well Irish anyway) and Choctaw Amerindian.

[Crimson Guard]

<<Everyone shut up. This I command. >>

Thats a line from the old GI JOE cartoon...Serpentor!

[hansel]

bert said:

. A very last consideration : the Dori , the ancient , people of Sparta are believed to have been Germans and the soldiers of Alexander the Great , who were Macedonians , were predominantly blond . They were Greeks . Why the two thirds of romans that were indoeuropeans , should have been different ? Just a question .

THE DORIANS WERE GERMANS ACCORDING
TO WHOM ?
HITLER?
THE MACEDONIANS WERE BLONDE?
ACCORDING TO WHO?
U NEED TO GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT DUDE...