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Post by executiona9 on Apr 5, 2004 10:22:34 GMT -5
I was not talking about immigrants. I was talking about dutch people
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Post by executiona9 on Apr 5, 2004 10:35:33 GMT -5
Ok lets look at that Portugal national soccer team : Tiago, black hair Pauletta, black hair Rui Costa, black hair Rui Jorge, brown hair Deco, black hair Beto, black hair Ronaldo, brown hair Sabrosa, black hair Petit, brown hair Figo, black hair Ricardo, black hair Nuno Valente, brown hair Fereira, black hair Quim, brown hair Carvalho, brown hair Nuno Gomes, brown hair That makes 9 black and 7 brown hair. I will certainly not judge whole Portugal based on 16 football players but It cant be denied that a lot of Portuguese have black hair. This doesnt mean Portuguese people are not white. I consider all Portuguese as white. Having black hair does not make you non-white.
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Post by Vimara on Apr 5, 2004 11:32:25 GMT -5
ok they majority have dark brown/black hair (japanese people as an example have pure black hair.the meds in this case portuguese have black hair that tends to be also brownish in color so darkbrown slash black)
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Praetor
Full Member
Graecus in Fennia
Posts: 246
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Post by Praetor on Apr 5, 2004 13:50:51 GMT -5
In my Greek eyes most of Portuguese players (Alex get ready for a Derby,we are unbeaten the last 15 games)have dark brown hair. (Deco is Brazilian by the way).Actually only Ricardo seems to have true black hair. Pure black hair are divided into Jet Black (that have no highlights) and Raven black (that get dark Blue one). Even some small undertones are enough to make ones hair Dark Brown rather than black.That's way they are called DARK Brown. www.soccer-gallery.net/pics/figo17.jpg [/img] That's what I mean.
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Post by xxx on Apr 5, 2004 15:05:47 GMT -5
There was a conquest of Holland by Spain. The interbreeding between the Spanish oppressor and the dutch natives has been documented a lot. Modern day dutch people have some spanish blood mixed in. That shows that you have no idea of what you are talking about, and should make anyone wonder if you have any idea for the rest of things you've said here. The Lowlands (including Holland, Brabant, Frieland, ... i.e. The Netherlands, plus Flanders and Wallonia... i.e. Belgium, plus other territories around) were a dynastic inheritance of King Carlos I of Spain (Emperor Karel V of the Sacred Holy Roman Empire). The wars in the Lowlands were due to a religion rebellion. In fact, Catholic Dutch supported the cause of Spain, and they were known as Spanish Hearts). The Spanish 'oppresor', as you call it, was in fact the Holy Roman Empire. To Spain the wars in the Lowlands signified a diversion of resources and gold for a cause which was that of the King of Spain, Felipe II. Spain did not have that many human resources as you wrongly assume. Funny that you live in The Netherlands (and you are Dutch?) and you don't know it. No. It means that you do not differ from black and dark brown... very dark brown. In fact, for some of the pictures where you say black hair, a shade of light allows to see a different colour. E.g. Beto's hair falling over his forehead (and a product like gel or wet hair make dark brown look like black, more so on a picture). It is not like the black hair I've seen in many Northeners.
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Post by alex221166 on Apr 5, 2004 15:41:36 GMT -5
If football players were representative, then Arthur Kemp would be correct about Portugal, and France would be a part of Africa. As usual, you are wrong: Tiago (dark brown hair) Pauleta (dark-brown hair) Rui Costa (very dark-brown hair - this one I admit that it is almost black) Rui Jorge (brown hair - not even that dark!) Deco (he is a Brazilian with obvious Amerindian admixture) Beto (you need glasses!!! Beto has light brown hair in the summer) Figo has Black hair. Ricardo (looks dark-brown but could be black, I can't tell because it is wet) That makes one guy with black hair, and another one that COULD have black hair. Let me tell you something: when I was a kid, I had chestnut-brown hair (almost red). Now it is dark-brown, but it gets lighter in the summer (as expected). When it is wet, it looks almost black. When I have poor lighting, it looks completely black. Get the picture? The next time you want to prove something about a people you know nothing about, at least try to make an extensive search. That way you will save my time, AND save face.
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Post by Vimara on Apr 5, 2004 15:47:23 GMT -5
jet black hair! "Even some small undertones are enough to make ones hair Dark Brown rather than black.That's way they are called DARK Brown." this is the point im trying to make... now what i dont believe once again is the 3 blondes to 1 its just my opinion i can learn from it {THATS WHY IM TALKING ABOUT IT! }DARK BROWN THAT TENDS TO LOO BLACK.............. i would like to see alex and manel post "blonde" in the defention they use in portugal..i am not attacking i am not trying to porve anything nor am i being hostile.the thing with these racial messageboars is THERE IS FAIR WEATHERED POSTERS WHO CLEARLY HAVE AN AGENDA.THEY FLOAT AROUND FROM EXTREMIST MESSAGEBOARDS TO MESSAGEBOARDS LIKE THESE.. i am not one of these people. i like to learn but ALOT OF THESE POSTERS ARE SHADY! and if you say something THEY WILL TURN IT AGAINST YOU. and its clear you have to watch what you say. and thats not fair...........
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Post by alex221166 on Apr 5, 2004 15:49:52 GMT -5
"In my Greek eyes most of Portuguese players (Alex get ready for a Derby,we are unbeaten the last 15 games)have dark brown hair."
Exactly. There is a difference between dark.brown and black. As to the match, I can't wait for the Euro to start. I just want Portugal to pass to the second round in first place. If Greece or Spain could pass in second place, it would be nice.
"Actually only Ricardo seems to have true black hair."
Actually, now I am not even sure that any of them has black hair.
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Post by executiona9 on Apr 5, 2004 15:52:34 GMT -5
Im dutch, have lived all my life in Holland and been studying dutch history for 20 years. And know a foreigner like you is trying to teach me. Interesting.
The fact that you claimed that Northern-Italy is mostly mediterrenean should make anyone wonder about your knowledge about Europe. Northern-Italy is one of the purest alpine regions in Europe, there is nothing mediterrenean about it.
Furthermore I dont buy the idea that Spaniards are overwhelmingly mediterrenean. There are lots of alpine, dinaric and even nordic traces in Spain. 50 % mediterrenean would be more accurate.
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Post by executiona9 on Apr 5, 2004 16:03:35 GMT -5
Your are showing very childish behaviour with your way to proof to me that im wrong and youre right. If you cant discuss like an adult than dont type to me.
Haircolours are debatable. What someone considers darkblonde another person could consider it lightbrown. And what someone considers black another person could consider it darkbrown.
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Praetor
Full Member
Graecus in Fennia
Posts: 246
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Post by Praetor on Apr 5, 2004 16:24:45 GMT -5
"In my Greek eyes most of Portuguese players (Alex get ready for a Derby,we are unbeaten the last 15 games)have dark brown hair." Exactly. There is a difference between dark.brown and black. As to the match, I can't wait for the Euro to start. I just want Portugal to pass to the second round in first place. If Greece or Spain could pass in second place, it would be nice. "Actually only Ricardo seems to have true black hair." Actually, now I am not even sure that any of them has black hair. I just said what it seems,how on earth could I know the truth from a pic By the way, our hair story is quite simmilar albeit mine used to be bronze/auburn.
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Post by alex221166 on Apr 5, 2004 17:49:48 GMT -5
Your are showing very childish behaviour with your way to proof to me that im wrong and youre right. If you cant discuss like an adult than dont type to me. Haircolours are debatable. What someone considers darkblonde another person could consider it lightbrown. And what someone considers black another person could consider it darkbrown. Yes, I am childish because I took it personally after you insulted me (you can't even use Northern European coldness as an excuse for your lack of manners) and because I proved you wrong. Dark brown is dark brown. It is a universal colour. Black is black. Furthermore, in Beto's case you were clearly disonest since in most pictures he shows up with blondish/light brown hair. Is light brown also considered "black" in Holland? Call it experience, 6th sense, or gut feeling, but for some reason I can smell a Nordicist a mile away.
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Post by xxx on Apr 5, 2004 19:49:08 GMT -5
Im dutch, have lived all my life in Holland and been studying dutch history for 20 years. And know a foreigner like you is trying to teach me. Interesting. That part of the history we are dealing with is not just Dutch History, it is also Spanish History. So yes, I could teach you something. If you want to believe that the Tercios de Flandes were all Spaniards, go ahead, I couldn't care less. I'm not going to say that history lessons at school in The Netherlands are better or worse. They are as good or bad as they may be in Spain, who knows? They are simply school level, and therefore tend to simplify quite a lot. There is no time to go in-depth. If I refered to just my history lessons from school in Spain, I would think just as you do, why not? I have one book here that you might find interesting and, probably, unbiased. It is written by an English Historian (therefore suspect of pro-Dutch bias) who is a well reputed Hispanist (therefore suspect of pro-Spanish bias). The title of the book is Spain and the Netherlands - 1559-1659 - Ten Studies, and the author is Prof. Geoffrey Parker. Prior to this book he also wrote on the subject others like The Army of Flanders and the Spanish Road, The Dutch Revolt, and Europe in Crisis, 1598-1648. According to Prof. Parker himself, the history of Spain in The Netherlands has been written biased to one side or another depending who has written it. I'm not saying that the Dutch (and the English) historians have been biased, but the Spanish have been too. To me it would be all more glooming to say that all soldiers were Spanish. But they were not. Spanish human resources were very limited due to hundreds of years of fighting Islam at home and the expulsion of the islamic population. Further, at the time of Felipe II, human resources had to be divided among the many enterprises in Europe and those in The Americas. No Empire has been created with its own national human resources, but has needed to employ those of other nations. King Felipe II inherited Flanders from his father, Emperor Carlos (or Karel to you), who in turn inherited those territories from his grandfather, Maximilian Habsburg. There was no such thing as the conquest of The Netherlands. Furthermore, when Emperor Carlos arrived in Spain to become King of The Spains, he was already ruler of The Lowlands, and he arrived with an entourage of Flemish/Dutch advisors. Why would he, or his son Felipe II, conquer a territory which already belonged to him? I haven't said such a thing: No such thing about Norhtern Italy. If something, it should imply that the Old Mediterranean goes fading as you move from South to North. The Modern Mediterranean does not match the Old Mediterranean. Modern Mediterraneans are a mixture, to a smaller or larger extent, of the Old Mediterranean with other Europid types. You don't buy and I don't sell. So who cares? And yet, a 50% Mediterranean with the remaining percentage being shared among Alpine, Dinaric and Nordic, means overwhelmingly Mediterranean. Ethnically speaking is overwhelmingly Mediterrranean.
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Post by executiona9 on Apr 6, 2004 4:48:46 GMT -5
A nordicist? Now thats funny ;D
I dont want anything to do with nordics (scandinavians) and southern-Europeans.
Im a central-European, so keep me out of this nonsense debate
My mom looks nordic, she has the blond hair and blue eyes. My father has black hair and brown eyes, he looks like a Southern-Italian I look like a central-european, I have brown hair and blue eyes. We got all subtypes in our family, so it would be extremely silly for me to choose sides betweens meds and nordics, dude.
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Post by Silveira on Apr 6, 2004 5:10:39 GMT -5
I think this thread is starting to get too emotional and would ask all participants to ponder their responses more carefully in order to ensure a climate of useful discussion.
Nobody here has cast any doubt that the vast majority of Portuguese have dark brown or "blackish" hair. What is incorrect is the affirmation that most Portuguese have jet-black hair such as the Chinese or East Indians. Even black Africans donĀ“t have jet-black hair, despite its curlyness.
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