Comment and discuss types

[quarryman]

Please comment and discuss their features and try to determine racial types rather than guessing nationalities (that can come later).

[Platypus]

1st left
man is smiling and is middle aged adding to a 'round faced' effect.
besides this, the forehead is wide and rounded, and the neck short. I would guess Brachicefalic. the nose is rlatively sharp.
He seems Alpinoid- Neo Danubian with no Mediterranean influence. I would place this man from Bavaria to Ukraine. I'll guess Hungary
2nd middle man
has coarser 'softer features, orbits wide, seems high headed. Again the main strain is Alpine within a non Mediterranean context. He should fit an area betwen France and Ukraine including ex-Jug.I'll guess Hungary
3 man right
has a very generalized look. slightly darker than the two before, longer faced with a protruding nose. the neck is short and thick. Reminds a lot of some of Coon's 'Aberrant' Alpines examples. P
red. Alpine. he could be from a very wide area. I'll guess South Balkans-Greece

1st lady
Alpinie. Because of the eyes (shape and colour) I will gamble an east source: Czech
2d Man in the Middle
looks typically Irish or British, slightly low orbited, he seems Keltic-Cro Magnid. probably not but i'll guess Ireland
3d lady.
I would guess a Nordic environment. the elderly lady has a short, wide face, which might have been narrower in youth. her cheeks are full and florid. the Jaw seems wide though.
Borreby in a gracilized Nordid direction. could range from Ireland to Sweden
my guess English
4th man
very peculiar face, with a heavy pinkish tan. he seems small faced. fits very well Coon's 'Danubian' type.
very generalized though. I'll guess Ukraine

[quarryman]

Very useful comments, thank you!

I forgot to tell they are all from the same place. I will concentrate on describing features that I find common in this actual group. In my eyes, a relative majority of the features seem to be Alpinid. And, as Platypus wrote, in a non-Med context. Quite a few (mostly women as no:s 4 and 7) have features linked with East Baltids (or "Neo-Danubians" in Coon's words). Perhaps some Borreby and Nordid inflence, but very little Mediterranid or Dinarid.

Individuals that I could describe as (roughly) "East Alpinids" are no:s 4, 7, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15 and 16, some (as no 14) leaning towards the East Baltid look. The others seem more difficult to describe in my eyes. Any more suggestions and comments?

[oubit]

Czechs or Austrians

[quarryman]

Well, actually they are Poles from a part of Silesia that was settled by ethnic Poles after WWII. They are said to come from different parts of the ethnic Polish territory plus from a couple of Polish-speaking islands in eastern Galicia (E of Lviv in today's Ukraine).

I was astonished by the strong Alpinid influence. I world have expected much more Dinarid features and - perhaps - a lighter pigmentation.

oubit, I think many of them look more "eastern" than in an average Austrian (and even Czech) group.

[Platypus]

I agree as Poles I would've expected more Dinarism or at least Dinaromorphism (think Lech Walesa like)

[Agrippa]

Alpinoid is clearly dominant.

[One Humanity]

According to Polak they should be brachycephalized Nordids.

The general character went astray as a matter of fact. The source of the traits is secondary.

[Agrippa]

Stronger Nordid influences can be seen in some though, like:


Rather Norid with Nordid:


She has a typical West Slavic face (because you see it almost in WS and there descendents only):

Baltid with facial traits being Norid-Dinarid influenced.

Borealised Eastbaltid-Alpinoid influence, Lappoid-even pseudo-Mongoloid appearance, probably even real admixture:


Classic light Alpinid type with untypical facial features, the result of full scale Alpinisation of a Nordoid-Cromagnid source type.

[annienormanna]

agrippa said:

Stronger Nordid influences can be seen in some though, like:

I definitely recognize the noses in your example. The broad faces seem peasant like, esp. the balance of eyes, to nose, to mouth, to cheeks.

Nevermind the Hitler stuff (he's standing just under the sign in the background) for a second.

[Agrippa]

Well, he looks Nordid, rather Eastnordid from what I can see, picture is very small, appearance is clearly Nordid - classic. Others seem to be mostly Nordid too with some Atlantid/North Mediterranid and Dinarid being thrown in possibly - racially progressive group and a striking contrast to Alpinised peasant variants.

[annienormanna]

agrippa said:

Well, he looks Nordid, rather Eastnordid from what I can see, picture is very small, appearance is clearly Nordid - classic. Others seem to be mostly Nordid too with some Atlantid/North Mediterranid and Dinarid being thrown in possibly - racially progressive group and a striking contrast to Alpinised peasant variants.

My mother was born about the time this photo was taken, and so this a is fairly good characterization of her as well. Her eyes are like blue crystals.

Here are their colors:



The Eastern Horde drove them West.

[quarryman]

I think the people in the nazi era pic are more likely Ukrainian or Volksdeutsche than Polish.

[Agrippa]

The Eastern Horde drove them West.

Really? Sorry to hear that.

I think the people in the nazi era pic are more likely Ukrainian or Volksdeutsche than Polish.

Indeed...

Btw I think that in Poland the differences between various regions are quite big, f.e. in Masuren seem the people to be MUCH more Nordid than in the South and Carpathian region which is more Eastalpinid and Dinarid. As I said once, the North seems to be socially stratified Nordid-Baltid, the South rather Dinarid-Alpinid with the more progressive elements (Nordid, Dinarid) being usually more dominant especially under students, scientists, police or military elite units as usual...

[quarryman]

I believe modern Poland is very mixed due to extensive migrations in the post-WWII-years (just as the case is in countries like Germany or the Czech Republic) when large groups of people where shoveled around or were moving more or less voluntarily. Traces of the former racial distribution can of course be seen in the countryside in the old Polish-speaking areas, but I'm sure there are only very few locations with no immigrants from the east.

Another thing is that lowland countries ofter are more homogenous racially than hilly ones. The old school anthropologists (Biasutti, Czekanowski, Eickstedt) liked to point out a Nordid area along the lower Vistula into Polish speaking territory (the region of Kujawy). And Bertil Lundman believed in a north-south division across the north-central European lowland, claiming that a more brunette population inhabit the loess soils along the foothills of the Mittelgebirge and the Carpathians. I'm not sure I'm buying all of that - surely there were some differences, but perhaps not that important. The Dinaricization (most notably high heads) as an example seems to have proceeded quite evenly in the whole Polish-speaking area.