Comment and discuss types

[Polako]

huzar said:

polako said:

[

Poles are much lighter than north Italians. I've been to north Italy, and the whole region strikes me as brunet in comparison to Poland and places like Slovenia.

You perception is wrong. First of all northern italy has a notable percentage of southern italians immigrated.


Native northern italian pop isn't darker than Slovania, for sure. I live here, and i visited many times Slovenia. I know very well the general somatic look. Northeastern italy, for example, share tha same % of Blondism and light eyes of Austria/Slovenia (Biasutti/Skerlj anthropologic data)

Besides , when you say brunet, what you mean exactly ? black ? Dark brown ? Medium Brown ? Red brown ?

clarify , and post an example, if you can please.

I didn't ask anyone whether they were native or not, but when I was in and around Venice, Milan, Torino, and a few other places, everyone looked much darker than in Poland, that's for sure.

Black hair was much more common. And another big difference was that many kids had dark hair in northern Italy, while in Poland kids with dark hair are unusual.

Slovenia seemed like home to me, but when I crossed the border into Italy the people looked different...much more southern European.

[huzar]

polako said:

[

I didn't ask anyone whether they were native or not, but when I was in and around Venice, Milan, Torino, and a few other places, everyone looked much darker than in Poland, that's for sure.

Exactly what i suspected : like every turist, you visited the biggest cities. place like Milan and Torino were for example the principal target of southern immigrants fro more than 20 year, between 60's and 70's

Black hair was much more common. And another big difference was that many kids had dark hair in northern Italy, while in Poland kids with dark hair are unusual.

Surely is more present than in Poland, but surely isn't the average shade (like in southern Italy)

To make an example, here to you my hair shade (i consider myself typical of northern italy in terms of pigmentation)

Slovenia seemed like home to me, but when I crossed the border into Italy the people looked different...much more southern European.

Without offence, but imo, your imagination and some cultural stereotype play a role here.. ...........political boards doesn't mean nothing anthropologically. How it's possible that Slovenia and northeastern italy are different ? (just in the moment you crossed the board you noted the difference ........... be serious, please ). Slovenia is a slavic country like Poland and Croatia etc. etc., therefore it's culturally very related to you, but phenotypically/racially can't be too different from northern italy .

Put it in this way : if northitaly is southern europe, then Slovenia is southern europe too. Visa versa, if Slovenia is central europe, Northern italy is too. Simple.

[Wetterkjelt]

polako said:

Black hair was much more common. And another big difference was that many kids had dark hair in northern Italy, while in Poland kids with dark hair are unusual.

Slovenia seemed like home to me, but when I crossed the border into Italy the people looked different...much more southern European.

Poland

I've been to Poland once (area around Wroclaw) I found the people to be very different than where I come from, much shorter, darker and coarser build. Haven't been to the northern parts, maybe there is the situation different.

Concerning Italy

Concerning Italy, I recently read an article about the genetical distances between Italians and Greeks wich clarifies what has been said by Italians a long time.
North-Italians are strikingly different than their Southern part. A genetical difference of more as 8% is ENORMOUS, this genetic research is of course being done on ethnic N-Italians and ethnic S-Italians.



To compare: the genetical distance between South-East Norway (Oslo) and some European countries

• South-East Norway and Sweden = 1,8 %
  
• South-East Norway and Netherlands = 2,8%
  
• South-East Norway and Denmark = 3,3 %
  
• South-East Norway and Hungary = 7,9 %
  
• South-East Norway and Spain = 12,4 %
  
• South-East Norway and Poland = 13,2 %
  

Safe to say thus that there is not an general Italian phenotype look, or do you think Hungarians have the same look as Eastern-Valley Norwegians ?

Sources:

For Norwegian results:
Geographical heterogeneity of Y-chromosomal lineages in Norway, by Berit Myhre Dupuy, Margurethe Stenersen, Tim T. Lu and Bjørnar Olaisen.

dienekes.blogspot.com/2005/12/y-chromosomes-of-norway.html

For Italy:
Clinal patterns of human Y chromosomal diversity in continental Italy and Greece are dominated by drift and founder effects

F. Di Giacomo,a F. Luca,b N. Anagnou,c,d G. Ciavarella,e R.M. Corbo,f M. Cresta,f
F. Cucci,g L. Di Stasi,h V. Agostiano,i M. Giparaki,j A. Loutradis,j C. Mammi
,k
E.N. Michalodimitrakis,c F. Papola,l G. Pedicini,m E. Plata,j L. Terrenato,a S. Tofanelli,n
P. Malaspina,a and A. Novellettob,*
www.familytreedna.com/pdf/italy.pdf

[Polako]

Most Wroclaw Poles come from what is today Lviv in the Ukraine. Most are Alpines and Dinarics.

But most people over 40 in Poland are indeed quite short. That's true for the whole country.

[huzar]

polako said:

Most Wroclaw Poles come from what is today Lviv in the Ukraine. Most are Alpines and Dinarics.
.

From what i've read, a big part of southern Poland is Dinaric/Alpine.

[corda]

There is no need to speculate. There are many stats and maps.
Contemporary map of eye pigmentation.


There were even common surveys covering N.Italy and S an W Poland.

This is pigmentation map based on "School statistic”. It shows frequency of so called “brown types” which is correlation of brown eyes and brown hair.
“School statistic”-was the only mass scale research conducted in the same time ca 1874-77, using similar methods and important because it included millions of school children of C.Europe: former K.Germany, f. Austria, Swiss and Belgium (not Netherlands). The map is old though gives some impression on distribution of pigmentation.
School statistic covered also whole Galicia - S.Poland so such maps are also available