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Post by Educate Me on Dec 3, 2005 21:24:11 GMT -5
Do you agree with those who say Islam has not matured because islam never had wars of religion like europe?
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Post by syriano on Dec 4, 2005 1:19:49 GMT -5
1- Apostasy is punished by death, it's true 2- adultery is punished by death, again true 3- anon-Muslim livening within the Muslim "empire" should pay taxes, true again - yes a lot of music is considered haram, true 4- same as 1 yes Islam uses aggressive measures to deal with (serious) problems, but would you say these are not the most efficient? alot of people are messed, they don't understand only with threat and fear. The good ones have nothing to worry about. I mean why defend things like rape or adultery? about paying taxes, it's true. Non-muslims have to pay taxes for belonging to the "empire" and for protection (the muslims have to pay zaka which is like taxes also), if there were a war to happen, the muslims are responsible for defending the non-muslim living within. About music, you are right. a lot of music is considered haram, but you can't say all music is haram. watch tv, even the Islamic programs use music. I believe the music which promotes bad behavior is considered haram. last one, the most scandalous one I assume. This can be taken in many lights I guess (all my opinion): 1- those who leave Islam often do so, when they didn't even learn enough about the religion** (I have never heard of a scholar converting for example). Islam is viewed as a religion of god, so rejecting this is like making a mockery of god (it's like a kid making a fool of his father, he's probably gonna get a good beating). Plus many of these converts become anti-Islamic and spread (one sided) bad reputation about Islam (like you ;D). These people have a stronger hate message than "kafirs", because they are viewed as "insiders". an important point I'd like to make is that the anti-islamics are always going round and round the same points, but they like to ignore all the clear good stuff present in the religion. some might say, why sex outside of marrige is punished by 50(I think) whips? you can wear a condom or get an abortion and there will be no problem. how about before there were condoms or health facilities? what about those who don't have these things NOW? even for those who have them now, how about the big number of abandoned children and the increasing spread of disease? and so on the most important thing when arguing against Islam -as I stated in the other thread-, is to get the whole picture, not just be selective. about the muslim countries, tell me which are the Islamic ones? there is not-one true Islamic country (and you know it). most of the stuff you hate about islam are allowed in most Islamic countries, yet they are still shit  btw, I understand your frustration as your country suffered a lot from "Islamic" radicalism ** Igu: me too I studied religion in school, I have Islamic and non-Islamic (muslim to atheist) friends and so on. and I still consider my self to know very little about the whole religion, which I think is the same with you also, I really have nothing against you, so don't take it personal |
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Post by klabauter on Dec 4, 2005 1:44:55 GMT -5
IguI guess you consider your self as a Berber? I would like to know from you what the normal Berber Moslem from the street thinks about Arabs and those Berbers who consider themselves as Arabs.
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Post by nymos on Dec 4, 2005 2:02:18 GMT -5
Syriano never fails. To the rescue of Islam once again.  |
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Post by syriano on Dec 4, 2005 2:45:52 GMT -5
I just think Islam is not the demonic religion some people are trying to make it to be these days.
Notice I never defend the people, but the religion.
most of the muslim world today is pathatic indeed (and they are very selective of what they choose to preach as well)
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oguz
New Member
Posts: 33
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Post by oguz on Dec 4, 2005 2:48:59 GMT -5
It’s intresting that someone that know Islam well is saying these.
First of all I don’t believe 99 percent of hadis(prophet’s quotes). I don’t believe they are from safe sources and they are true.I don’t care what religous scholars say how safe they are.
You have only given an example from Quran(Quran 9:29)In this part it’s talking about a war. In a war rules can change.
I think Quran is what you understand. A stupid, a psycophatic or an obsesive can understand it differantly. And there are a lot of these kind of men, religious scholars in Islam world.
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Post by Mazigh on Dec 4, 2005 8:43:27 GMT -5
none is happy with it exepts the prophet, the kalifs, and the clever lucky people who can use it to get their hidden aims.
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Post by DeLacroix on Dec 7, 2005 15:20:23 GMT -5
Do you agree with those who say Islam has not matured because islam never had wars of religion like europe? I don't agree at all, the difference between christianity and islam is that: -the foundments of Christianism is tolerance, non-violence....etc, but its disciples were at some time in the past violent. -The foundments of islam are intolerant but its disciples were at some time peaceul. Christianity has not matured, it came back to its original spirit after deviating from it, whereas islam matured/deviated from its original spirit but now is coming bqck to its reql nqture. Islam is not a religion, it's an ideology, like Fascism and National Socialism, founded by a sick pervert, starved for "grandeur". There is not either a moderate islam, moderate muslims are in fact, those who were born muslim and who give a damn about Islam. |
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Post by anodyne on Dec 7, 2005 15:29:17 GMT -5
Religion: a set of attitudes, beliefs, and practices pertaining to supernatural power.
Ideology: a comprehensive set of political, economic, and social views or ideas, particularly concerned with the form and role of government.
The verdict is in - Islam is a religion..... or is it? hmmmmm
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Post by Ewig Berter on Dec 7, 2005 16:00:37 GMT -5
As for the rest of Berbers, I do consider them as arabs becasue they claim to be arab, I don't want to insult them nor offend them by calling them "berbers". Who appointed you to speak in the name of the no-kabyle Imazighen!?. What if I accused kabyles of being the most french-wanna-be berber group; Would your react or not!?. |
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Post by DeLacroix on Dec 7, 2005 16:16:10 GMT -5
Religion: a set of attitudes, beliefs, and practices pertaining to supernatural power. Ideology: a comprehensive set of political, economic, and social views or ideas, particularly concerned with the form and role of government. The verdict is in - Islam is a religion..... or is it? hmmmmm Wrong. Islam is a set of beliefs and practices pertaining to a man, Muhammad. Islam isn't moralistic and spiritual, it's a set of political, economic and social rules. A good muslim isn't the one who's righteous, it's the one who follows Muhammad's teachings. Islam unlike the other religions, is political. Like most totalitarian ideologies, it is ritualistic,oppressive, violent, racist, dangerous, axed on the life of a cult leader, who were a rapist, a pedophile, an assassin, a mass murderer, a ruthless torturer, a misogynist, a narcissist, a thief, a plunderer, a paranoid, and a manic-depressive. Muhammad and his followers, unlike Jesus and moses, spread Islam through terror and death. Islam like National socialism and communism, is expansionist, totalitarian and warlike. How could you consider something with such caracteristics, a religion? Read about Islam and you'll find out that it's completly an ideology, a backward and totalitarian ideology, just like fascism and nazism. And don't tell me we should respect the others' beliefs, do you respect KKK's beliefs? Should we tolerate dangerous beliefs just for the sake of PCism? Wake up pal and smell the coffee. |
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Post by Ewig Berter on Dec 7, 2005 16:31:50 GMT -5
Laudabilis, what do you think about Christianity!?. Do you think I should adhere to it!?. I feel like I need to save my ass ... |
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Post by Educate Me on Dec 7, 2005 16:33:30 GMT -5
Isnt converting to christianity rather risky? like, relatives and neighbours would try to stone you?
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Post by Ewig Berter on Dec 7, 2005 16:41:25 GMT -5
Risky!?. Where would Jesus, my then-supposed-Savior, be!?. |
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Post by DeLacroix on Dec 7, 2005 16:42:29 GMT -5
Laudabilis, what do you think about Christianity!?. Do you think I should adhere to it!?. I feel like I need to save my ass ... Personally, I'm atheist, but NO religion or superstition or even the most absurd beliefs, bothers me. You're free to believe in God, Krishna, Elohims, Spirits, or whatever you want, as long as you don't treaten the world's harmony and the freedom of the others. Islam just like Nazism, Communism, does not have a place in the modern world, and should not be tolerated. |
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