The Most Maligned European Nation(s)

[Sandwich]

some region where both caravans and dogs are common

Sounds like some foul English seaside resort. The proverb is uncommon in the UK.

As Berschneider suggests, proverbs have good legs. I recently read an Albanian offering "Better to die on your feet than live on your knees" as local folk wisdom. Seems there are Internationals in proverbs too.

[Weevil]

alex said:

"As of being lectured on democracy by a Russian, well it’s about same as one would claim that Portuguese would be disqualified to talk about esthetics or modern art because their women are fat, ugly, swarthy and have beards and whiskers. It’s a totally stupid way of making an argument and (yet another!) proof that you are total idiot."

No, not really. You see, Portuguese women are not fat, nor ugly nor do they have beards or whiskers - therefore your premiss is a wrong one. On the other hand, and assuming that you were a Russian (my mistake), receiving lectures about Democracy from a person from a country which has an obvious democratic deficit... well, let's just say that it is amusing to say the least.

.

Portuguese women DO have a somewhat higher rate of obesity than other European women. The EU collects statistics on such matters.

[AWAR]

Weevil said:

Portuguese women DO have a somewhat higher rate of obesity than other European women. The EU collects statistics on such matters.

I don't know about gender specifics, but on average, Brits are the most obese Europeans...

Also, it's age specific. While the (example) Greeks are on average fat, they are only fat in the 45-60 yr old group, while Brits and Americans are fat ...period.

[Weevil]

AWAR said:

I don't know about gender specifics, but on average, Brits are the most obese Europeans...

Also, it's age specific. While the (example) Greeks are on average fat, they are only fat in the 45-60 yr old group, while Brits and Americans are fat ...period.

No, Awar, I don't think so.

europa.eu.int/scadplus/leg/en/cha/c11558.htm

Portuguese and Greeks women are the most obese females in Europe. Period.

[Sandwich]

Overweight women may well correlate directly with low incidence of women smoking, since smoking is a known appetite-suppressant. The figures posted by Weevil seem to support the idea.

[Silveira]

Few Portuguese women outside of the main cities smoke and the older and more rural Portuguese don´t see women smoking as socially acceptable behaviour. There is also a cultural gap between younger Portuguese women who are more fashion conscious and therefore frequently diet and try to look good in contrast to women of the older generations. There is also a rural/urban divide in eating habits. In rural Portugal people tend to eat traditional abundant and rich meals while in the cities people don´t have as much time to eat and eat smaller portions.

[berschneider]

Silveira said:

Few Portuguese women outside of the main cities smoke and the older and more rural Portuguese don´t see women smoking as socially acceptable behaviour. There is also a cultural gap between younger Portuguese women who are more fashion conscious and therefore frequently diet and try to look good in contrast to women of the older generations. There is also a rural/urban divide in eating habits. In rural Portugal people tend to eat traditional abundant and rich meals while in the cities people don´t have as much time to eat and eat smaller portions.

Portuguese don't have a prayer - no one can compete with Americans when it comes to body fat or stupidity.

[heydrich]

The portuguese people posting in this forum were behaving in a civilized way for some time, but sadly it was more than they could bear. They fell prey to their megalomania (delusions of grandeur), a disease that is rampant in this country. Unfortunately, Portugal can never win a fight on the basis of contributions to European culture, an aspect in which it is clearly inferior to Russia (although of course there are good things, and things worth preserving). The glory of Portugal (if there will be any) is still to come. For the moment, we must be modest and realistic (like the 19th centrury Japanese) (I am portuguese).

[Silveira]

The portuguese people posting in this forum were behaving in a civilized way for some time, but sadly it was more than they could bear. They fell prey to their megalomania (delusions of grandeur), a disease that is rampant in this country. Unfortunately, Portugal can never win a fight on the basis of contributions to European culture, an aspect in which it is clearly inferior to Russia (although of course there are good things, and things worth preserving). The glory of Portugal (if there will be any) is still to come. For the moment, we must be modest and realistic (like the 19th centrury Japanese) (I am portuguese).

I don´t see myself as a megalomaniac and I have never claimed great Portuguese contributions to "European culture". The Portuguese did however initiate a slight, tiny little geographic revolution with their early explorations, which affected many cultures the world over. Anyway, I think we should differentiate excessive pride from healthy self-respect. Excessive pride, whether that of megalomaniac rulers or political elites, whether pride in a divinely ordained superiority, in a "world class struggle" or in a herrenvolk is what led to the death of tens of millions of people in the 20th century. In our poverty and isolation, and far from the violences of modern superstitions, and belittled by the great and wealthy and powerfull, we continued living out the life which our grandfathers lived.

The Portuguese nation, this humble, unlearned and backward nation to which I have the honour of belonging and the duty of serving, in the best way that I see possible, has done a few good things in the material and spiritual planes.

History teaches us that the narcissism of the superior peoples are all temporary in nature, let them enjoy their 5 minutes of fame. Yesterday´s sultans are today´s slaves. The world revolves continuously as its wheels grind out miseries and destruction and death. We remained distant, in the extreme periphery to all of this, yet strangely we feel at home anywhere in the world. We exist since 1143, we have faced worse crisis in the past, let others have their arrogance and greed and pride, we will probably outlive them.

BTW, "Heydrich" does not sound very Portuguese.

[eufrenio]

Silveira said:

History teaches us that the narcissism of the superior peoples are all temporary in nature, let them enjoy their 5 minutes of fame. Yesterday´s sultans are today´s slaves. The world revolves continuously as its wheels grind out miseries and destruction and death. We remained distant, in the extreme periphery to all of this, yet strangely we feel at home anywhere in the world. We exist since 1143, we have faced worse crisis in the past, let others have their arrogance and greed and pride, we will probably outlive them.

Excellent, Silveira, that´s a good sample of what makes you Portuguese such a great people: your common sense.

[berschneider]

Portuguese accomplishments are very impressive - one just has to compare the size of Portugal with the number of Portuguese language speakers in the world.

[alex221166]

heydrich said:

The portuguese people posting in this forum were behaving in a civilized way for some time, but sadly it was more than they could bear. They fell prey to their megalomania (delusions of grandeur), a disease that is rampant in this country. Unfortunately, Portugal can never win a fight on the basis of contributions to European culture, an aspect in which it is clearly inferior to Russia (although of course there are good things, and things worth preserving). The glory of Portugal (if there will be any) is still to come. For the moment, we must be modest and realistic (like the 19th centrury Japanese) (I am portuguese).

No one in this message board (and I mean NO ONE) has ever compared the cultural contributions of Russia with those of Portugal. If you read through this thread, you will realise that what was compared was both countries' democratic history. Russia has obviously contributed much more to music, literature and to the sciences than Portugal (which doesn't mean that Portugal didn't contribute with its fair share to all of those fields).

The Japanese culture is based in pride, courtesy and honour, but not in modesty. It took the Japanese almost 250 years to even accept the presence of foreigners in their country, so I can't comprehend why you would even mention Japan and the word "modesty" in the same sentence.

Another thing that I find amusing is that just last week, an Austrian-American told me that in his opinion Portugal was definitely one of the great European nations. I disagreed because I don't place Portugal's contributions in the same level as Germany, France, Italy or England. By the way, the Austrian-American I mentioned knows more about Portugal than many Portuguese.

PS: If you are Portuguese - as you claim - why don't we continue this conversation in Portuguese?

[heydrich]

Anyway, I agree that Portugal is one of the most "maligned" European nations. A reason for this is that the country lost all respect it might have from other nations by officially endorsing as something to be proud of the "portuguese are mulattos" myth. Producing mulattos, besides showing a lack of pride in the native racial stock, is much easier than producing masterpieces in mathematics or classical music. This created an image of the portuguese as an easygoing, lazy bunch, more concerned with eating and f*cking that with any form of serious work or accomplishment.

[alex221166]

heydrich said:

Anyway, I agree that Portugal is one of the most "maligned" European nations. A reason for this is that the country lost all respect it might have from other nations by officially endorsing as something to be proud of the "portuguese are mulattos" myth. Producing mulattos, besides showing a lack of pride in the native racial stock, is much easier than producing masterpieces in mathematics or classical music. This created an image of the portuguese as an easygoing, lazy bunch, more concerned with eating and f*cking that with any form of serious work or accomplishment.

Let me repeat:

1) Who do you accuse of having compared the Russian cultural and scientific achievements with those of Portugal?

2) Why do you say that the Portuguese should follow the example of modesty (!!!) shown by the 19th century Japanese?

3) Why did a Portuguese choose a Germanic handle?

4) Why doesn't a Portuguese like you (?) speak Portuguese?

If you don't reply to all of these questions I will be reassured that you are the fraud I presently believe you to be.