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Post by Ponto Hardbottle on Jul 7, 2005 12:01:14 GMT -5
As long as that is the only thing you do with ass!
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Post by Circe on Jul 7, 2005 14:14:59 GMT -5
As long as that is the only thing you do with ass! ;D Welcome back, Ponto!
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Post by Drooperdoo on Jul 7, 2005 15:45:46 GMT -5
Why are Americans such cry-babies? They want to rule the world, beat up on Third World countries, make incredibly xenophobic cracks against the French, Arabs, and anyone else. They get caught carrying out torture in Abu Gharaib and Guantanamo Bay. But they still want to be loved. Awwwwwww! Warms your heart, doesn't it? [The empire that just wants to be loved.]
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Post by topdog on Jul 7, 2005 15:54:52 GMT -5
Why are Americans such cry-babies? They want to rule the world, beat up on Third World countries, make incredibly xenophobic cracks against the French, Arabs, and anyone else. They get caught carrying out torture in Abu Gharaib and Guantanamo Bay. But they still want to be loved. Awwwwwww! Warms your heart, doesn't it? [The empire that just wants to be loved.] Isn't this what colonial Europe did to the world?
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Post by Crimson Guard on Jul 7, 2005 16:19:09 GMT -5
I'am an American and I cant stand the government..the country is going down the tube more and more everyday,but so is much of Europe aswel!
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Post by Drooperdoo on Jul 7, 2005 18:00:04 GMT -5
Crimson Guard, I'm an American, too. And a conservative. But I'm heartbroken. America has been highjacked by neo-fascists. The mood here is militarism and the philosophy of the jackboot. If I hear one more Rush Limbaugh listener justify torture, or one more parrot repeat White House talking-points word-for-word from Fox News I'll vomit. Our civil liberties are being stripped away every day. And--as in classic fascism--they claim they're doing it to "protect" us. The restricted public discourse and debate has to be stifled--so long as we're at "war". But what country are we at war with? No, no, no, we're in a war against the abstract concept of "terror". Bush and his fans say that we'll have to put up with the erosion of our civil liberties as long as "terror" exists anywhere on Earth. This isn't like World War I or World War II. We had real enemies, actual nations--real goals. But when you're enemy is "terror," the "war" can last forever. So when will all "terror" be defeated? The answer: Never. Not so long as fascists can use it as an excuse to stifle their critics and get fat military contracts to line their Swiss bank accounts. P.S.--You can tell this "war" is bogus when Bush says that the Geneva convention doesn't cover so-called "enemy combatants". He argues, for the Geneva Convention to apply, they have to be part of an army. If there's no "official war," they're not officially soldiers. Okay. . . . But here's the thing: It's a "war" when Bush wants it to be, but when it comes time to deal with the enemy, suddenly it's not a "war". What kind of bogus crap is that?
P.P.S.--And weren't all those Afghans picked up fighting against a foreign aggressor coming into their country and killing them? --That's an "army". They were armed citizens fighting an invader. How is that not an "army"? --I guess they weren't "soldiers" because Bush doesn't want them to be. Never mind that they fought off Americans just like the Vietnamese did. . . . Er . . uh . . . But I guess they weren't an "army," either because they didn't have uniforms. Oops! The Vietnamese captured were treated according to the Geneva Convention--despite not having uniforms. So . . . how do you answer that one, Mr. Bush?
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Post by mike2 on Jul 7, 2005 18:28:08 GMT -5
I don't mind it when Bush is criticized, which he rightly should be, but I do mind it when the evil that was clearly present in places like Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, and the Sudan is written off in favor of bashing America. That's first class bullshit right there.
We aren't the ones flying planes into buildings or taking part in government-sponsored genocide.
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Post by nockwasright on Jul 7, 2005 18:50:15 GMT -5
The USA are the more moral country that ever was, imo. Never a superpower was so restrained in the use of his power. Never it was so open to criticism from inside and abroad. Never it was so concerned about foreign inerests. Never.
Sadly it is usually compared with some sort of ideal angel like country that never existed in real life.
The USA does some nasty things because that is what states do. Its critics should prove they are worse than other states, not just that they make errors or vile acts on a Platonic ideal state standard, as errors and egoism are just human, not "American".
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Post by Drooperdoo on Jul 7, 2005 18:50:34 GMT -5
Mike, So . . . um . .. you're against "bullshit," huh? --Interesting. So Iraqis have something to do with Saudis flying airplanes into buildings? Please explain. I know you're above said bullshit. So please explain why Iraqis are tortured in Abu Ghraib for what alleged Saudi terrorists did. Oh, never mind. I forgot: They're all brown. Okay. It makes perfect sense now. Sorry. You're right. How foolish of me.
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Post by Drooperdoo on Jul 7, 2005 18:55:49 GMT -5
Nockwasright, Edmund Burke said, "All that it takes for evil to win is for good men to do nothing". Good men should denounce torture. Period. No exceptions. Good men should denounce unconstitutional imprisonment without charges being given and no access to attorneys. Check the Constitution. That's ILLEGAL. I don't care about alleged Afghan terrorists [who were in fact nothing of the sort], nor Iraqi insurgents, nor Syrian mercenaries. It DOES matter, though, when Americans are thrown in prison with no charges filed and no access to attorneys. That happened to Jose Pedilla. And dozens of others now. Perhaps hundreds. I have a real problem when AMERICANS are treated like that. It unconstitutional. If they have evidence, produce it. (I, too, want anyone who has a bomb or wants to kill Americans thrown in jail for life; or, better yet, given the death penalty.) But if they don't have evidence then the person HAS to be set free. There's no gray area about that in the Constitution. You can't imprison people permanently on a "suspicion". That's Soviet Russia, that's Communist China. Americans don't do that. We have a system that relies on . . . um . . I don't know: a little thing called The Rule of Law. Evidence. Due Process. You can't suspend the Constitution at will. That's what dictators do. They promise you "safety" if you'll just allow them to strip away those pesky civil liberties. P.S.--This "war on terror" is just like the "war on drugs". It's a war against . . . an abstract concept. People will never stop using drugs. And the government knows that. They've criminalized non-violent behaviors to give themselves jobs . . . to take tax-money, and to use "search and seizure" laws to confiscate property that doesn't belong to them. It's a greedy and corrupt government's con. . . . And now The War on Terror. When will all "terror" end? --And that's precisely the point: Never. I'm depressed that not more of you are waking up to this lousy con job.
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Post by mike2 on Jul 7, 2005 19:32:15 GMT -5
If I thought all brown people were evil, I guess I'd have to go shoot up the Mexicans next door, wouldn't I? Don't be ridiculous. This has nothing to do with race, Drooper. Nor does it have to do with specific terrorist attacks.
Let me tell you what I am against. I am against the maligning of the United States as if it is the evil Empire from the Star Wars universe. That is the bullshit I am talking about. Bush should be be criticized, yes, but to malign the entire country of America the way people have been doing is absurd when people like Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, Kim Jung-Il, etc. represent the true evil powers in the world. They are dictators and evil men. Bush's axis of evil, as comical-sounding and oversimplified as it is, is very real, my friend.
Bush may be a stuttering buffoon, but he isn't a murderer. He doesn't gas his own people. He didn't rise to power by a coup d'etat. He was first elected in a time of peace and endured the worst terrorist attack the U.S. has ever seen along with everybody else. Much changed from that point on, but many things stayed the same. For murderers are still murderers.
Hitler was a murderer. Saddam Hussein is a murderer. Osama bin Laden is a mass murderer. The Janjaweed of the Sudan are genocidal murderers.
It doesn't matter who attacked the United States. It doesn't matter who did what or how severe that what was. What matters is that all of these individuals and the organizations that back them are evil and would gladly take any opportunity at their disposal to harm not only America, but the entire free world.
That's what I'm against. I'm against saying the United States is as despicable as the people who wish to destroy the ideals she stands for, and everybody else like her. I don't like wars against abstract concepts, either. I think the U.S. should have a real, flesh-and-blood enemy to fight. I'm with you on that. But I'm not with you on maligning this great country. The world owes much to the United States.
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Post by Crimson Guard on Jul 7, 2005 21:42:39 GMT -5
Neo-Con are not Fascist's,their a brand of Socialist Technocrats...
Bush is a lying POS and is a Murderer aswel,Blair is another one.Iraq was for Country building and oil,all for the big Corporations which Bush backs and sponsers.He's for the rich.We alienated alot of people who where once our allies in the Middle East by our staunch support of Israel..Israel was recently been caught selling the technology we gave them to our enemies,they where even caught spying on us..the "Israeli government" is clearly screwed up, as are we for thinking their our buddies,when they are not.
Billions of our hard earned Tax paying dollars is going/ being washed down the toilet in iraq and we should stop giving money to countries that do not deserve it when our country is in the pits.
Democrats and Republican are all the same crap today....they both suck & must be destroyed with extreme Prejudice !
The USA is unfortunately has become a hypocrisy of lies and deceit...It has been caught in so many lies and embarrassing situations.The fact that Bush has not been impeached for lying about the WMD on Iraq a War under false pretenses....is testament to the Pop Culture's American mainstream being brain dead...
I do however support the US Armed Forces,as their out their fighting and dying...godamm shame!
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Post by Ponto Hardbottle on Jul 7, 2005 22:04:36 GMT -5
There is a fine line between patriotism and jingoism. Some of you do not see it. A lot of American action will be forgotten by Americans and many foreigners except by those who were affected. Afghanistan, Iraq, many in the Arab and muslim world, they won't forget. One of the things that surprised me when I arrived in Australia 8 years ago was the celebration and reverence for old wars that Australians were involved in like the Boer War, Crimean War, the failed Bardenelles invasion, various first and second world wars. Defeats are turned into victories, marches and Lest we forget. Memories of past defeats and humiliation linger. Japan was just a feudalistic and backward country when Commodore Perry forced his way into Toyko Bay. That had a profound effect on the Japanese. They modernised and militarised and in 1941 took off to destroy the gaijin. I suppose Americans do not link Commodore Perry with Pearl harbor. You should. What goes around comes around. At the moment, America is accumulating a lot of bad karma. Someone mentioned European colonialism. Yes it is true. European colonialism created America, Australia, Canada, Argentina, Brazil and other Central and South American states, and tried to change Africa from war lords to nations. Remember America created Liberia to get rid of the American blacks. It is not our faults that democracy, law and order, respect for human life and other European concepts have fallen on stoney ground.
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Post by Drooperdoo on Jul 7, 2005 22:42:46 GMT -5
Mike, Saddam Hussein didn't "gas" his own people. He gassed Kurds. Kurds who were fighting on the side of Iran in the Iran-Iraq war. To Iraq, they were "terrorists". Secondly, I think that Bush is a dictator, too. He wasn't legally elected. In his first 2000 presidential campaign, I was even rooting for him. (I hated Clinton and didn't want to legitimize him by giving Gore a term as president. So I voted for Bush.) But even *I* admit that the 2000 presidential election was rife with fraud and manipulation. It was a race to see who had the better connections--and Bush won. But he didn't win by votes. He won because his Dad had connections to the Supreme Court and his brother was--coincidence of coincidences--governor of the state he needed to carry for electoral votes. And the second election was rigged, too. Several Republicans have given affadavits that--in a replay of the 2000 election--there was massive voter fraud in Florida and (this time) Ohio. One Republican insider said that Kerry actually won by 1.5 million votes. So a coup d'etat DID take place in America. Bush was NEVER elected--yet there he is in power.
Is it any coincidence that the "new Pearl Harbor" that the neocons raved about for over a decade happened to bolster this illegitimate president? --So, yes, to answer your question: I believe that Bush DID kill his own people. 9-11 was an inside job if ever there was one. No terrorists did that. Terrorists didn't have the power to tell Norad to stand down and not shoot those jets out of the sky. Yet Norad was told to stand down. If a commercial airplane goes a mile off course, it's met by military jets within 5 minutes. Yet on 9-11, all these giant commercial airliners were allowed to fly around for hours--with no jet intercepts. Even former governor Jesse Ventura says that there's something wrong with the official 9-11 story because of that aspect. I agree. So attack me if you will. But I--and millions like me--are starting to question 9-11. In a generation or two, the majority of Americans will realize that (just as with the Kennedy assassination) a coup d'etat took place. Or do you believe in lone gunman? I don't.
P.S.--Mayor Willie Brown was warned against flying on 9-11. So did the "terrorists" call him in advance and warn him? --That's laughable. . . . Yet he is on record as having been warned in advance--as are dozens of other officials. TERRORISTS don't warn politicians in advance. Even a member of Bush's own cabinet has recently said that the offical 9-11 story is bogus. So you'll excuse me if I am just a wee bit cynical when it comes to the world of geopolitics. I don't believe in candy-canes and lollipops, and "convenient coincidences".
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Post by Crimson Guard on Jul 7, 2005 22:54:23 GMT -5
Ventura despite sometimes saying some outlandish things,is actually the one I would vote for for..He speaks the truth and I find myself agreeing with him.
Arnold the Fake on the other hand is a complete Neo-Con puppet and an idiot.
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