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Post by mike2 on May 14, 2005 18:39:40 GMT -5
Where is the Habashi who started this post, don't ask such questions. Negroids are humans just like everyone else, every race had slaves and have been slaved. Slavery was like a business nothing else pretty much. Not all blacks were slaves and some were never slaved ever!! Agreed. No race has ever had a monopoly on slavery. It is a sin of all mankind.
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Post by murphee on May 14, 2005 18:40:56 GMT -5
Red fire ants conquered Texas long ago.
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Post by murphee on May 14, 2005 18:42:25 GMT -5
Blacks and Whites are not safe in my mother-in-law's yard. They are equal-opportunity biters.
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Post by nockwasright on May 14, 2005 19:56:30 GMT -5
What is better is relative to that individual person and is highly subjective. It isn't out of this world. I know. We can not prove that, say, Odissey is better than, say, wathever places' oral tales or wood artifacts. But you know it's more imporant to us now, more relevant, and in a word, better. It can not be proved on a "universal" plane, but it can be proved on a human plane. I just can't believe that you think Sub Saharan Africa had until now an history as important and relevant as China or Idian. All the concepts you use with your arguing, the same "arguing" in itself, is the product of written word. We would not be able to have this kind of conversation if we had not had civilisations that used written words. All the things you think, you can think and express thanks to the culture that arrived to us via texts. SS Africa didn't produce texts of any kind. That's why I think you should agree that it did lag far behind other places' civilizations, as China and India. Besides, this is not a crucial argument in the "race" debate. History is not finished yet. While the genotype of populations keeps being equal, we see civilisations rise and fall. The fact that SSA didn't produce a civilisation that can match China or India until now, doesn't prove or imply that it won't do so in the future.
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Post by mike2 on May 14, 2005 21:19:44 GMT -5
I know. We can not prove that, say, Odissey is better than, say, wathever places' oral tales or wood artifacts. You mean to say how does something like Sundiata compare with the Odyssey? I've actually been mired in a long period of interest in Africa and I've been looking for everything black African, such as traditional costumes and weaponry and textiles and whatnot. Unfortunately it seems all I can find in any great number are masks. I hate masks!
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Post by topdog on May 15, 2005 0:18:28 GMT -5
I know. We can not prove that, say, Odissey is better than, say, wathever places' oral tales or wood artifacts. But you know it's more imporant to us now, more relevant, and in a word, better. It can not be proved on a "universal" plane, but it can be proved on a human plane. So you admit to make such a statement is subjective. Sub-Saharan Africa did and does have history as relevant as China's and India's, why do you think its any less important or relevant? How much do you actually know abot sub-Saharan Africa? They did produce tests, thats why I disagree with you. Nubians and Aksumites for example, left behind written texts, although the former has yet to be deciphered. In West Africa you have the Kano Chronicles, and Timbuktu manuscripts. In East Africa you have the Kilwa Chronicles. Though written in Arabic script, these chronicles and manuscripts were composed in the language of native Africans. Furthermore, not everyone in China, India and Europe were literate, most of the people were illiterate. Like I said before, subjective statements aren't facts and what do you mean about in the future? You still think sub-Saharan Africans haven't done anything yet?
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Baladi
Junior Member
Posts: 63
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Post by Baladi on May 15, 2005 0:50:04 GMT -5
During the Middle Ages most Egyptians didn't really live in Al-Qahria. Most accomplishments during the Middle Ages in Egypt were Arab ones,and some indigenous Egyptians. The elite around this time were Mamelukes who despised the Egyptians. Or should I actually say many Jewish ones also. al-Fustat and al-Qahria had Jews.
Read Taqi al-Marqrizi for more information about how the Mamelukes and others treated the few Egyptians in the bureacracy. They marched them around naked through the street.
You keep trumping about Greeks and Romans but fail to realize its because of their opressive taxiation system and restrictions on the priesthood is one of the reasons why ancient Egyptian culture collapsed. Macedonian Greeks had some respect for native Egyptian customs,but Romans despised the Egyptians.
Augustain put up whole restrictions on the ancient Egyptian priesthood.
You are right about the Ptolemic influences regardless of how the treated the indigenous Egyptians. They brought the Saqia water-wheel and improved irrigation with the archimedes screw.
BTW, not just Greeks and Armenians were settled in Cairo during the Middle Ages. You also had Sudanese who settled in parts of al-Qahria along with the Greeks and Armenians. That means alot of modern Cairene Egyptians are walking around despite their phenotype have Nubian ancestry.
Many people flooded Cairo during the Middle Ages from Kurds,Iranians,Turkish people,Arab tribes,and Greeks. All documented.
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Post by alexandrian on May 15, 2005 1:12:19 GMT -5
During the Middle Ages most Egyptians didn't really live in Al-Qahria. Most accomplishments during the Middle Ages in Egypt were Arab ones,and some indigenous Egyptians. The elite around this time were Mamelukes who despised the Egyptians. Or should I actually say many Jewish ones also. al-Fustat and al-Qahria had Jews. Read Taqi al-Marqrizi for more information about how the Mamelukes and others treated the few Egyptians in the bureacracy. They marched them around naked through the street. You keep trumping about Greeks and Romans but fail to realize its because of their opressive taxiation system and restrictions on the priesthood is one of the reasons why ancient Egyptian culture collapsed. Macedonian Greeks had some respect for native Egyptian customs,but Romans despised the Egyptians. Augustain put up whole restrictions on the ancient Egyptian priesthood. You are right about the Ptolemic influences regardless of how the treated the indigenous Egyptians. They brought the Saqia water-wheel and improved irrigation with the archimedes screw. BTW, not just Greeks and Armenians were settled in Cairo during the Middle Ages. You also had Sudanese who settled in parts of al-Qahria along with the Greeks and Armenians. That means alot of modern Cairene Egyptians are walking around despite their phenotype have Nubian ancestry. Many people flooded Cairo during the Middle Ages from Kurds,Iranians,Turkish people,Arab tribes,and Greeks. All documented. You have no proof for anything you say. And they have little or no impact. Cairo of the Middle Ages was a large international city of learning, and though the Turks were in charge, the only "Arabs" in the city were indigenous Egyptians, Egyptians who were simply Arabized and spoke Arabic. That's the truth. Furthermore, oppressing someone's religion isn't oppression. Even Copts and Muslims oppressed ancient Egyptian temples, does that make them non-Egyptians? You're mind is so simplistic. Also, the Sudanese in al-Qahira were castrated and turned into eunuchs to guard brothels, so obviously their contribution to the genepool was limited, to say the least. Also most Jews of the Middle Ages in Egypt were indigenous Egyptians, Karai'tes who'd been Jews since ancient times, and more recent Egyptians who'd converted during Hellenic Alexandria. YOu make blanket generalizzations that can't be proven true trying to paint modern Egyptians as simply Arabs or something and trying to dismiss their accomplishments. Egyptians of Cairo of the Middle Ages were ARabic-speaking Egyptians and that is that and you know it.
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Post by santana on May 15, 2005 1:13:56 GMT -5
im back alexandrian... and its true
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Post by alexandrian on May 15, 2005 1:16:40 GMT -5
im back alexandrian... and its true nice to see you back...what's true?
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Post by topdog on May 15, 2005 1:18:26 GMT -5
You have no proof for anything you say. And they have little or no impact. Cairo of the Middle Ages was a large international city of learning, and though the Turks were in charge, the only "Arabs" in the city were indigenous Egyptians, Egyptians who were simply Arabized and spoke Arabic. That's the truth. Furthermore, oppressing someone's religion isn't oppression. Even Copts and Muslims oppressed ancient Egyptian temples, does that make them non-Egyptians? You're mind is so simplistic. Also, the Sudanese in al-Qahira were castrated and turned into eunuchs to guard brothels, so obviously their contribution to the genepool was limited, to say the least. Also most Jews of the Middle Ages in Egypt were indigenous Egyptians, Karai'tes who'd been Jews since ancient times, and more recent Egyptians who'd converted during Hellenic Alexandria. YOu make blanket generalizzations that can't be proven true trying to paint modern Egyptians as simply Arabs or something and trying to dismiss their accomplishments. Egyptians of Cairo of the Middle Ages were ARabic-speaking Egyptians and that is that and you know it. Where are your proofs for your claims?
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Post by alexandrian on May 15, 2005 1:21:26 GMT -5
Where are your proofs for your claims? What "claims" did I make?
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Post by santana on May 15, 2005 1:22:27 GMT -5
those arent claims those are facts..
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Post by topdog on May 15, 2005 1:24:55 GMT -5
those arent claims those are facts.. When he posts proof then I'll believe him, some of his claims have been ridiculous like saying Arab Berber mixes are typical Egyptians, while simultaneously saying Nubians are not.
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Post by alexandrian on May 15, 2005 1:30:19 GMT -5
When he posts proof then I'll believe him, some of his claims have been ridiculous like saying Arab Berber mixes are typical Egyptians, while simultaneously saying Nubians are not. What claims did I make Erudite! Do you think you know more about Egypt than either me or santana? Get over yourself, you know nothing of Egypt. What unreasonable claim did I make? Do you not believe in the existence of native Egyptian Jews? In the existence of African eunuchs? In the fact that most residents of Cairo were Egyptians? Give me a break.
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