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Post by amksa on May 15, 2005 13:38:00 GMT -5
That reminds me of something that happened to me back in high school. I was 16 and school had just ended. I was waiting for my bus when a rather distinguished Middle Eastern man approached. First he just chatted about the weather and stuff and I politely responded that yes, the weather is quite shitty in Sweden as a matter of fact. He was well dressed in a suit and didn't look like a bum or anything. His Swedish was ok so he must have lived here for some time. Then all of a sudden he moved up closer and asked what my name was, from where I was ("You don't look Swedish but you speak sooooo well!"), where I lived etc. Uh-oh, what to do! Mom always said to bust their nuts and run or was it just to scream and run? Anyway, I lied about my name and when my bus came I said something like oh gee, here's my bus, I must take it now or else my father will be very angry if I'm late! Something like that anyway, sort of to show him that I was expected somewhere (which was a lie of course). I'm a terrible lier, so I don't know if he fell for it, but he didn't get on the bus which I was afraid of. There were other teens waiting with me, but somehow you still feel alone when a stranger tries to get "intimate". You sound paranoiac and coward in your country : you probably could't bear the life in Paris where the males (even those who are 12) are potential sexual predator... it's strange how different can be the definition of harassment.
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Post by MC anunnaki on May 15, 2005 14:18:31 GMT -5
You sound paranoiac and coward in your country : you probably could't bear the life in Paris where the males (even those who are 12) are potential sexual predator... it's strange how different can be the definition of harassment. What's paranoid about being 16 and not used to men in their 40s coming on to me? Are the potential sexual predators in Paris North African/Middle Eastern/black African? Here, most guys who come on too rough on girls (and many times can't accept no for an answer) are Middle Eastern, North African or black Africans. I've even encountered Arab boys as young as 7-8 voicing their obscenities at me. I didn't feel threatened because they were so young, but it was disturbing nontheless, to have kids so young say such things. My mother would have beaten the crap out of my brother had he done something similar. It seems like many today don't care about raising their children properly. Sweden, like the rest of Scandinavia, has a lot of problems with young ME/NA/SSA boys (and men) harrassing girls, especially the natives. Group rape is almost always perpertrated by non-European men (Asians excluded) and the victim is almost always a native girl. Is it the same problem in France? I've never had these experiences with Swedish men. Swedish men are rather shy and careful when they approach a woman. Now that, I like. I guess I should be glad I'm not living in Paris.
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Post by Wadaad on May 15, 2005 23:47:42 GMT -5
I think all this "foreign men are rapists" thing is mostly exaggerated. It comes down to one thing mostly, northern european and northern asian men are more reserved and timid/apprehensive in their style of approaching women. From personal observation, alot of these same guys need courage from a bottle when it comes to hitting on girls in clubs, while it comes cool and natural to black, latin, mediterranean and middle eastern guys. Look I dont believe in genetic causes for behaviour, its certainly due to upbringing, so I'm not saying theres a gene that makes whites inhibited, but I've seen it in action. Women who are used to such reserved approaches are usually startled when you are all up in their face, and hitting them up with compliments and being direct and forceful...so I can see how alot of them can confuse it for harrasment, when its really not.
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Post by MC anunnaki on May 16, 2005 0:01:39 GMT -5
I think all this "foreign men are rapists" thing is mostly exaggerated. It's not really. It's exaggerated if one says that most foreign men are rapists, but not when you look at percentages in comparison to the number of people in each group. Non-European men (mostly Africa and the Middle East) are greatly overrepresented when it comes to rape and especially gangrape. Of course, they're still a very tiny minority of the whole immigrant population here. It comes down to one thing mostly, northern european and northern asian men are more reserved and timid/apprehensive in their style of approaching women. From personal observation, alot of these same guys need courage from a bottle when it comes to hitting on girls in clubs, while it comes cool and natural to black, latin, mediterranean and middle eastern guys. The thing is, even drunk Swedes are sometimes to prefer to sober Middle Eastern guys, but that's just my two cents, and of course, it's not applicable to all non-European men! Look I dont believe in genetic causes for behaviour, its certainly due to upbringing, so I'm not saying theres a gene that makes whites inhibited, but I've seen it in action. Neither do I. Most of Africa and the Middle East are rather misogynic (right word??) socities. Women have few if any rights. I know personally that many Middle Eastern boys in Sweden, especially if they're Muslims (which most of them are), are brought up to believe that women can be treated as one wishes. Swedish women are thought of as whores because they can have boyfriends and engage in sexual activities. If you think that of a woman, then there's no surprise you won't respect a no... So culture has a lot to do with it. Guys who are brought up in the West with western values tend to be a bit more reserved than guys who haven't, regardless of ethnicity. Women who are used to such reserved approaches are usually startled when you are all up in their face, and hitting them up with compliments and being direct and forceful...so I can see how alot of them can confuse it for harrasment, when its really not. I wouldn't have thought of it as harassment I guess if the guy has been more my age, but someone old enough to be my dad, that was creepy.
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Post by joton on May 16, 2005 0:24:11 GMT -5
i dont know asians.
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Post by Ilmatar on May 16, 2005 2:14:30 GMT -5
A common old stereotype in Sweden about Finns is that they're always drunk and quick to use knives in "arguments". ;D Well, I heard from a good friend of mine whose family lived in Sweden till she went to school that was actually the way matters were delt with in some Finnish families in the late 70's. And one unfortunately still sees some incredibly agressive alcohol introduced behaviour especially on Saturday nights up here. However, that really doesn't happen with the "metalheads", who have other ways of letting their agressions out, I guess.
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Post by amksa on May 16, 2005 7:11:13 GMT -5
What's paranoid about being 16 and not used to men in their 40s coming on to me? Are the potential sexual predators in Paris North African/Middle Eastern/black African? Here, most guys who come on too rough on girls (and many times can't accept no for an answer) are Middle Eastern, North African or black Africans. I've even encountered Arab boys as young as 7-8 voicing their obscenities at me. I didn't feel threatened because they were so young, but it was disturbing nontheless, to have kids so young say such things. My mother would have beaten the crap out of my brother had he done something similar. It seems like many today don't care about raising their children properly. Sweden, like the rest of Scandinavia, has a lot of problems with young ME/NA/SSA boys (and men) harrassing girls, especially the natives. Group rape is almost always perpertrated by non-European men (Asians excluded) and the victim is almost always a native girl. Is it the same problem in France? I've never had these experiences with Swedish men. Swedish men are rather shy and careful when they approach a woman. Now that, I like. I guess I should be glad I'm not living in Paris. i'm sorry if i insulted you, but my english isn't as perfect that i would like : my sentiment, when reading your story, was that in your country you seem to have a high sense of personal vital space. My opinion is that, in some areas of Paris, people get easily into promiscuity. by "potential sexual predadators", i didn't mean "rapists", but enterprising seducers, talkative, shameless : i don't think that, in france, the rape rates, amoung youth, is as dramatic than what i read about usa. so, annunaki, i'm sorry if i sound insensitive in my previous post, i'm not heartless. i don't think that north african or blacks are the ones who exploit more often their natural predation tendencies, i think that's a common trait to all teens here, but girls are not too shy and submittive... i even saw/know some teenage girls who can easily speak with dirty and drunk vagabonds (even to equivocal darky gypsies in their mysterious and sepulchral caravans) without any hesitation ! that's what i meant by "it's strange how different can be the definition of harassment." i speak for paris, not all france : i don't know what are the rustic chicks's customs. this thread is about how people are attracted to each other, i realise that the way differents cultures and countries show the aforesaid attraction is also a good debate to discuss : who are the most agressive "seducers" ? who are the less gifted ethnicity in the seduction game ? etc. this post isn't a scientific contribution by Dodona posters criterion (i didn't use the words alpinoïd or occiput), the questionable and male chauvinist idea carried by this post is that French ladies aren't excessively shy (from what i experienced.)
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Post by MC anunnaki on May 16, 2005 7:31:23 GMT -5
i'm sorry if i insulted you, but my english isn't as perfect that i would like : my sentiment, when reading your story, was that in your country you seem to have a high sense of personal vital space. My opinion is that, in some areas of Paris, people get easily into promiscuity. by "potential sexual predadators", i didn't mean "rapists", but enterprising seducers, talkative, shameless : i don't think that, in france, the rape rates, amoung youth, is as dramatic than what i read about usa. so, annunaki, i'm sorry if i sound insensitive in my previous post, i'm not heartless. It's okay, now I understand better. Yes, I have a need for quite a big radius of personal space around me when I'm among strangers. Call me culturally damaged, it's the way Scandinavians work.
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Post by amksa on May 16, 2005 7:39:28 GMT -5
It's okay, now I understand better. Yes, I have a need for quite a big radius of personal space around me when I'm among strangers. Call me culturally damaged, it's the way Scandinavians work. i can understand, i don't like when my appealing little body is touched by lidibinous and bovine crowd.
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Post by zemelmete on May 16, 2005 7:56:18 GMT -5
Neither do I. Most of Africa and the Middle East are rather misogynic (right word??) socities. Women have few if any rights. I know personally that many Middle Eastern boys in Sweden, especially if they're Muslims (which most of them are), are brought up to believe that women can be treated as one wishes. Swedish women are thought of as whores because they can have boyfriends and engage in sexual activities. If you think that of a woman, then there's no surprise you won't respect a no... So culture has a lot to do with it. Guys who are brought up in the West with western values tend to be a bit more reserved than guys who haven't, regardless of ethnicity. Thanks that you explained about what I was always wondering- incredible insolent southern men. I had never understand before how these men can be so rude and insolent towards women and girls, why they have such attitude. Thanks God, I live in country where even the cruelest men usually are somewhat shy towards women so I have had problems with very nasty men only abroad. I remember how in Germany harassed me 2 turk guys. They got on my nerves so much that I scarcely controled myself to not to slap them.
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Post by Ponto Hardbottle on May 16, 2005 9:46:25 GMT -5
There are differences in personal space, touching, eye contact and the etiquette of speaking to strangers. I have lived in three countries and visited quite a few and I have noticed big cultural differences. I have Indian, Greek and Italian friends who are always touching me, not because they fancy me, just because I do not maintain the intense eye contact that is normal in their countries. Some nationalities are touchers. As far as personal space is concerned anyone close enough to smell them or see the pores in their skin is too close. Anyway, I am such a lumbering thing that I need lots of space to move without running into or accidentally hitting someone. I think that old man was probably lonely for people who look like his nationality. It does not happen to me as I do not look particularly like any nationality. I do not want to bag any nationality but some do not respect women. A woman alone is fair game or considered a tart. And East Asians may be reserved but that does not mean they respect women.
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Post by MC anunnaki on May 16, 2005 11:45:45 GMT -5
I actually read an article in a Swedish newspaper how Japanese women are getting their own subway car so that they won't have to get groped by the men all the time. Apparently, groping is a problem when riding Tokyo subway.
I alternate between looking at a person's eyes and his/her mouth when they talk to me. Sometimes I focus too much on the mouth, they must be thinking they have something stuck between their teeth.
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Post by Soomaal on May 16, 2005 13:12:29 GMT -5
I don't know what the foreigners in Scandinavia are drinking, but in North America the typical rapist is white.
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Post by molika on May 16, 2005 16:03:19 GMT -5
In the balkan countries men are definitely nurtured to be the initiator in relationships. In my country, if you make eye contact with a man, you are inviting him to come and talk to you. In the US, making eye contact is simply saying 'hello'. Needless to say I was rather unsuccessful in the United States in beginning relationships, especially since I wouldn't even look men in the eyes! Good thing my husband found me...
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Post by Mimers on May 16, 2005 16:21:12 GMT -5
Sometimes I focus too much on the mouth, they must be thinking they have something stuck between their teeth. ;D
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