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Post by Tautamo on Feb 18, 2005 7:10:08 GMT -5
Look, I have visited both countries (in winter time). Here is my conclusion: Spain has more exreme darker and lighter tipes. The greeks are more moderate. Most Greeks look something like Penelope Cruz. Some darker and some lighter. Though Spaniards are a little bit more diverse. Antonio Banderas for example could pass for a very dark Greek, though he would clearly be a minority. A lot of Spaniards have this kind of features in Andalucia On the other hand, a great deal of Spaniards can pass French or in some cases Germans........ You know what, forget it. It's not like we are trying to compare Swedes and Nigerians. I dont agree at all.i dont think most greek girls can pass for cruz.Greeks are eastern meds so they will tend to look like other eastern meds .I still have to look for what anthros wrote...
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Post by ginojda on Feb 18, 2005 12:25:59 GMT -5
That´s not correct. When untanned, Banderas is actually lighter than Penélope Cruz. Just check out some of his early pictures, when he was shooting films with Pedro Almodóvar. He only started working on his tan to land stereotypical "latino" parts in Hollywood. Penélope is actually a bit on the dark side of the pigmentation spectrum for women in my country. Her father is from the Canary islands. yeah, I have seen some pics of Antonio banderas without his cancerous looking tan. He looks like a Meddish redneck in some of those pics. Cruz I believe has some gypsy ancestry also.
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Post by ginojda on Feb 18, 2005 12:32:10 GMT -5
Hollywood seems to focus on the extreme Dark types of Italians and Spaniards when they portray them on film, and people start believing that Italians/Spaniards are closer to middle easterners in features. When in reality most of the 40+ million spaniards and 60+ million italians are closer to central europeans in coloring.
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Post by buddyrydell on Feb 18, 2005 13:38:45 GMT -5
Hollywood seems to focus on the extreme Dark types of Italians and Spaniards when they portray them on film, and people start believing that Italians/Spaniards are closer to middle easterners in features. When in reality most of the 40+ million spaniards and 60+ million italians are closer to central europeans in coloring. Agreed. Greeks are also considerably lighter than how they are commonly portrayed by the media (the modern Greeks that is, since we know they love their blond ancient Greeks).
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Post by Tautamo on Feb 18, 2005 13:44:03 GMT -5
why dont we all start a petition and ask hollywood to stop portraying irish as jig dancing drunks southern europeans as dark arabs germans as nazis ;D
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Post by visigodo on Feb 18, 2005 15:34:41 GMT -5
What cracks me up about Hollywood is that it looks like more and more if you notice they have to import white people from elsewhere to play Americans. ;D (Cause soon the common American person will be some odd brown mix.)
Someday, the U.S. media will be like that of Mexico where you only see white people, (in their films, and Television) yet the common everyday citizen is a mixed brown shade. (Hilarious!!)
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Post by BadMan on Feb 18, 2005 20:45:56 GMT -5
Well, I think that the reason they portrayed the Greeks as light haired northern Europeans is because, a) Achilles was described as blondish, wasn’t he? And Alexander was described as blonde as well. This may be because the definition of blonde to the ancient Greeks is different than it is to us; or it just so happened that Alexander the great really was blonde (and Achilles is made up, so it doesn’t matter). One should also notice how they used a relatively dark Irishman to play Alexander (and dyed his hair blonde). Maybe they are trying to tell you something. I would have to agree and disagree that the Greeks are portrayed as darker than they really are. I saw one movie in which a Greek clerk was played by a man from India or Pakistan. ![:o](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/shocked.png) I was shocked. He even had a thick (non-Greek) accent. But outside of that, I’ve seen Greeks usually portrayed by wasp American actors. Anyways, from my personal dealings with Greeks, (I have Greek family) they are not that dark, and aside from the dark hair, are not too different from my Dutch family (most of which are blonde/light brown haired, but some have dark hair). There is one exception in which I saw a Greek which was really dark (so dark other Greeks thought she was Middle Eastern). And there are scores of lighter Greeks, some that are indistinguishable from wasps (at least before some of them talk). Jennifer Aniston (and her father, John Aniston, from Crete I believe). Arianna Huffington , Billy Zane, Bob Costas etc. Most of these people I didn’t even know were Greek until someone told me; I had assumed they were just Americans with the usual ancestries (English, Scottish, Irish, Dutch, French etc.) Perhaps this is because many change their names and take on more ordinary screen names (Jennifer and John Aniston’s real family name is Anastassakis, Arianna Huffington’s maiden name is Stassinopolous. Etc.) I want to point out that I’ve heard that George Clooney was trying to make a movie about the "Gates of Fire," based around the battle of Thermopylae, and he is supposed to have a role in the movie; he is rather more swarthy than the average American, especially for someone of Irish decent (I think he’s of Irish decent, but not sure). Anyways, I don’t know why people are objecting so much over hair and skin colour of the actors portraying Greek heroes (especially the fantasy ones). Like perhaps because it’s an American movie staring Americans? Maybe they hired actors Regardless of their colouring, just so long as they are not too far off from what they might have been (i.e.: a black Achilles would have been so wrong). I just find it funny that people object to Greeks being portrayed with certain features, but I don’t see anyone saying “his nose is not straight enough to be Greek” or “his chin is not Herculean enough” or anything like that.
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Post by buddyrydell on Feb 18, 2005 21:16:35 GMT -5
Well, I think that the reason they portrayed the Greeks as light haired northern Europeans is because, a) Achilles was described as blondish, wasn’t he? And Alexander was described as blonde as well. This may be because the definition of blonde to the ancient Greeks is different than it is to us; or it just so happened that Alexander the great really was blonde (and Achilles is made up, so it doesn’t matter). One should also notice how they used a relatively dark Irishman to play Alexander (and dyed his hair blonde). Maybe they are trying to tell you something. I would have to agree and disagree that the Greeks are portrayed as darker than they really are. I saw one movie in which a Greek clerk was played by a man from India or Pakistan. ![:o](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/shocked.png) I was shocked. He even had a thick (non-Greek) accent. But outside of that, I’ve seen Greeks usually portrayed by wasp American actors. Anyways, from my personal dealings with Greeks, (I have Greek family) they are not that dark, and aside from the dark hair, are not too different from my Dutch family (most of which are blonde/light brown haired, but some have dark hair). There is one exception in which I saw a Greek which was really dark (so dark other Greeks thought she was Middle Eastern). And there are scores of lighter Greeks, some that are indistinguishable from wasps (at least before some of them talk). Jennifer Aniston (and her father, John Aniston, from Crete I believe). Arianna Huffington , Billy Zane, Bob Costas etc. Most of these people I didn’t even know were Greek until someone told me; I had assumed they were just Americans with the usual ancestries (English, Scottish, Irish, Dutch, French etc.) Perhaps this is because many change their names and take on more ordinary screen names (Jennifer and John Aniston’s real family name is Anastassakis, Arianna Huffington’s maiden name is Stassinopolous. Etc.) I want to point out that I’ve heard that George Clooney was trying to make a movie about the "Gates of Fire," based around the battle of Thermopylae, and he is supposed to have a role in the movie; he is rather more swarthy than the average American, especially for someone of Irish decent (I think he’s of Irish decent, but not sure). Anyways, I don’t know why people are objecting so much over hair and skin colour of the actors portraying Greek heroes (especially the fantasy ones). Like perhaps because it’s an American movie staring Americans? Maybe they hired actors Regardless of their colouring, just so long as they are not too far off from what they might have been (i.e.: a black Achilles would have been so wrong). I just find it funny that people object to Greeks being portrayed with certain features, but I don’t see anyone saying “his nose is not straight enough to be Greek” or “his chin is not Herculean enough” or anything like that. Yeah I pretty much agree with you. That's pretty funny that they used an Indian to portray a Greek. That's even radical by Hollywood standards ;D. I also know a girl whose parents are both from Greece and you'd think she was German or just a typical Euro-American of northern/central European origin. The same thing also applies to Italians. I come from an Italian-American family and can also attest to a multitude of lighter-haired and/or light-eyed Italians, some of whom are in my family. Like you, I've also known a few Italians who were darker than the average and some people thought they were Middle Eastern or Latin American (including me and other Italians), but the vast majority of southern Europeans are obviously fairer than how they are portrayed. I distinctly remember one time in which Jennifer Lopez was used to portray an Italian, that's when I knew Hollywood had its head up it's a$$ lol.
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Post by agrigentosicula on Feb 19, 2005 0:10:44 GMT -5
I remember that!!!!!! They used her to play a Sicilian! I almost threw my television out of my window!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Slick on Feb 20, 2005 4:14:33 GMT -5
I remember that!!!!!! They used her to play a Sicilian! I almost threw my television out of my window!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The reverse scenario is also true. European actors like Paz Vega, Antonio Banderas, Penelope Cruz etc…have played Latin Americans. Hollywood is not in the business of making historically accurate documentaries, they’re in the business of making money. And to do that they need as many bums on seats as they can possibly get and actors like Lopez, and others mentioned above, helps them achieve that. It’s the pulling power of these actors that’s important, the plot, background of actor/actress etc of which is the movie is supposed to be based is usually inconsequential. Few people will give it much thought, it’s not the reason why people go to see movies. It’s a work of fiction created to entertain the masses for 1 1/2 to 2 hours.
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Post by eufrenio on Feb 20, 2005 11:03:28 GMT -5
The reverse scenario is also true. European actors like Paz Vega, Antonio Banderas, Penelope Cruz etc…have played Latin Americans. Hollywood is not in the business of making historically accurate documentaries, they’re in the business of making money. And to do that they need as many bums on seats as they can possibly get and actors like Lopez, and others mentioned above, helps them achieve that. It’s the pulling power of these actors that’s important, the plot, background of actor/actress etc of which is the movie is supposed to be based is usually inconsequential. Few people will give it much thought, it’s not the reason why people go to see movies. It’s a work of fiction created to entertain the masses for 1 1/2 to 2 hours. If that was really the case, and money was the sole concern, then Hollywood would outsource all its productions to Bollywood, and have all parts played by Indians... ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Post by visigodo on Feb 20, 2005 12:30:49 GMT -5
Posted by: eufrenio
God help us all!...if we ever have to go this route!!
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Post by wardner on Feb 20, 2005 18:58:05 GMT -5
there were other celtic tribes such as lepontini, carni and the so-called "cultura di golasecca", there were ligurians, most likely from Iberian peninsula, there were venetics, most likely an illyrian population... the genetic differences between north and south italy are undeniable though there is a common substrate. this map shows a significant genetic shift related to a linguistic limit between north and south. ![](http://tinypic.com/1iy1pu) notice that there's no such thing between Spain and Catalunya or France and Occitania, but if it's ok to talk about a catalan or an occitan culture/identity, the word padania is still taboo. As northern italian I find it unfair.
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Post by osiris on Mar 2, 2005 0:13:28 GMT -5
HEY AMIGOS THE REASON WHY HOLLYWOOD MAKES GREEKS BLOND IS TO DO WITH THE GERMANIC INSPIRED 19THE CENTURY VIEW THAT THE HELLENES WERE A PURE IE NORDIC RACE.IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HISTORICAL REALITY BUT EVERYTHING TO DO WITH HOW MODERN GERMANS SAW THEMSELVES AS THE SPIRTUAL AND EVEN RACIAL DECENDANTS OF THE ANCIENTS.THE WESTS VIEW OF THE HELLENES HAS SINCE THEN BEEN TOTALLY DERTERMINED BY THAT PERSPECTIVE.DESPITE THE FACTS THAT MUCH OF ANCIENT HELLAS' CULTURE WAS EGYPTIAN AND PHOENICIAN INSPIRED AND INFLUENCED, EG THE GODS THE ALPHABET. AS FOR TODAYS GREEKS THEY HAVE VERY LITTLE IN COMMON WITH THEIR ANCIENT NAMESAKES RACIALLY OR CULTURALLY, BUT THATS ANOTHER STORY.
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Post by Buddyryvall on Mar 2, 2005 0:56:34 GMT -5
I agree with you up to there ![:o](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/shocked.png) AS FOR TODAYS GREEKS THEY HAVE VERY LITTLE IN COMMON WITH THEIR ANCIENT NAMESAKES RACIALLY OR CULTURALLY, BUT THATS ANOTHER STORY. Ye ye we've heard the slavs story a million times, the ancient Greeks all misteriously disapeared and were all repleced by Southern Slavs, Central Asian Turks and Albanians. And thats why the modern Greeks look so slavic and central Asian. Ha Ha Ha, Osiris man, or should i say Barbarian, or whatever you;re calling yurself, your a loser, GET A LIFE, you come on Dodona every few weeks with a different name making your ridiculous statements, No one takes you seriously, Hey Ill talk to you in a language you undertsand, Bulgarian- Vratise kaj majchiniot bro, Pushi kur mater ti ebam, Odi ebi se man, Ke ti ebam g'z maychin -yes. As a closing statement-Pleme ti ebam, including the Bulgarians. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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