Human races: D & D style

[Kame]

Even though I don't really subscribe to the traditional "race" paradigm as most people think of it, i thought it would be fun and cool to take the rules of the roleplaying game dungeons & dungeons(or if your familiar with baldurs gate or torment) and apply them (albeit stereotypically) to human racial groups here they are:
default stats (stat table)
18 strength
18 dexterity
18 wisdom
18 charisma
18 intelligence

African:

Agile, muscular,and highly coordinated they are the epitome of human phyical acheivement. They are also skilled natural musicians and artisians. They make shrewd diplomats and highly charismatic leaders incuring a +1 bonus to charisma and dexterity but penalty to wisdom.Typically found in varying types in sub-suharan africa, they are excellent as soldiers, generals, priests, poets, preachers, musicians, or craftsmen. Being they somewhat lacking in overall wisdom, incurring a -2 wisdom penalty. Regaining it though by choosing a preacher, but keeping it while a priest.

European:

The most all-around race ,skilled in various many disciplines, they can choose any class and advance to any level. However because of their cosmopolitian nature they are subject to an equal number of penalties as bonuses. They gain no particular abilities because they do not specialize in anything. Their ingenuity is a is what propels them however, they gain a +5 bonus when using ranged or mechanical weapons, making excellent marksmen, but are good as any class.

Asian:

Intelligent and industrious, they are particularly skilled in machinery as well as philosophy and wizardy. Being in a unified social setting, they will carry out orders without question and will gladly sacrifice themselves for the good of the whole. They are however generally physically frail, and so must rely on their wits if they are to survive. They incur a +2 bonus to intelligence a +1 to wisdom and gain a +5 bonus when using swords, because they rely on skill, wit and speed. They take a -2 penalty to strength and -1 to charisma, making them not best suited to diplomacy or any fighting profession other than swordsmen.

Any other "races" or ideas? please post them

[BioMan]

Wow this topic sounds like fun, although it kinda feels wrong. Id like to comment on a few of the races. I am not a racist, these points do have evidence linked to them btw. And if you want sources I will site them out.

1. Blacks have the strongest leg strength, amongst the three races though they have the weakest upperbody strength. Asians arnt that physically weak compared to Europeons. In fact they are pretty even in some cases. During the recent 2004 Athens Olympics Asians totaled 7 medals(2 gold 4 silvers 1 bronze) in the weight lifting event. Europeons totaled 10 medals with (3 gold 4 silvers rest bronze). No African descent in the weightlifting events. Amongst women, Asian and Europeon descent, women got 5 golds,4 silvers, 2 Bronze. Europeons got 1 gold, 3 silvers, 4 bronze.

2. Doesnt D&D have Vitality as one of its stats? If so then Blacks score the highest since they have the densest bone structures. They can take the most hits.

3. Blacks should get a small penalty in dexterity. Asians of course get bonus, while whites are still the jack of all traits. Blacks should also get bonus run/walk speed.

4. Shouldnt whites be the ones with the charisma bonus. Since they score the highest in language IQ.

5. Genetically speaking Asians are potentially better marksman than those of Europeon or White ancestry. They have the highest reflex rates so they can fire, react or aim while thinking faster than the other races. They are also the most accurate in firing given equal equipment and training. For example during the Vietnam war the kill ratio between Americans and Vietnamese was 10:1. The kill ratio for the south korean group who recieved training+weapons from America averaged 25:1. Another example would be Koreas total dominance in archery which was once a Europeon dominated event.

6. No race should be limited to only a certain class. All races should be able to have a melee class each limited by different factors. Africans will have high durability and hp, yet has the slowest attack speed, but have the highest run walk speed. Whites in the middle, Asians will have the lowest hp and defence, yet has the highest reaction and attack speed+accuracy. Slowest walking speed though.

[Faelcind]

This does seem kind of fun I never played D&D though so I can't really play I would make few comments.

Bioman what makes you say blacks have the lowest upper body strength. All the evidence I have seen indicates differently, the high levels of anerobic muscles tissue, low level of adipose tissue, and low motor unit inhibition would help the upper body as much as the lower. They are genereal long legged which gives them higher center of gravity which is disadvantage in certain power sports like wrestling, and don't as often have the combinationof extreme meso/endomorph seen in north european populations that produce he world strongest men, but as on overall comparison I think the probably have more upper body strength, especially based on strenght to weight ratio. Also foot speed is very closely related to hand speed and if you look at black boxers there genereally expection in attack speed.


I would also be wary of using asian olympic performance as indicator of ability because China is widely beleived to have the most sophisticated state sponsored doping system in international sports. I beleive it was the weight lifting association that has actually refused to accept certain records set in chinese games, because their so suspect.

What about the other races, Amerindians, Australoids, melanasians, Khoisanids?

Australoids seem to have the potentional to be exceptional runners at both short and long distances.

I would except Khoisanids to have similar physical charecteristics to mongloids, and amerindians to be fairly similar to baseline Europeans less variable but more enduring. Melanasians I would guess would be similar to west africans. East africans are quite distinct in physical charecteristics from west africans too.

[Anima Eternae]

Racial differences don't exist, Faeclind.


Didn't you read the awesome PBS special! I know you did!

[Faelcind]

Go jackal some one else AE.

[BioMan]

When it comes to power sports involving the legs and hips(sprinting, high jumping) its usually Africans who dominate this category . When it comes to power sports involving upper body strength however they do not, its quite the opposite. You rarely if ever see them in upper body strength sports. Africans also have the smallest hip average. White in the middle Asians the largest hip ratio.

Africans still can punch very hard in boxing, the reason behind this is because punching power is not determined by hand strength alone. Look at a power puncher like Tyson in his prime and you’ll see that his punching power comes not only from his hand but also the twisting of his hips and positioning + proper alignment of his legs. Power punches use much more than arm strength alone.

Secondly Key word “widely” secondly ive never heard of the supposed steroid abuse in China. Its usually the Caucasian countries associated with steroid abuse. Thirdly in order to compete in the Olympics you have to go through steroid tests. That Greek 400 meter runner refused to run when he was suspected of steroid abuse(he didn’t take the test because he knew the results would expose the truth) Asians arnt as physically weak as media paints them to be(studious nerd or martial artists who relies on speed and reflexes rather than strength).

Austroloids are so complicated though. When it comes to race you can separate them into 3 major categories Negroid, Caucasoid, Mongoloids. Negroid and Mongoloid seem to always be on opposite poles. While Europeon whites seem to be closer to Mongoloids then Egyptians.

Example on how far apart Negroids and Mongoloids

when it comes to IQ Negroid average the lowest while Asians average the highest. Whites in the middle. When it comes to life expectancy Negroid average the lowest while Asians average the highest even when given equal living Caucasoid in the middle). When it comes Penis Size and Running ability Mongoloids are the lowest/smallest while Negroid are the fastest/largest. Caucasoid again in the middle. Austroloids at times are below or above blacks in some categories. I don’t know where to put them on. The same applies to people from the Middle East. They can be between Negroid and Caucozoids or between Caucozoids and Mongoloids, there is no absolute category for them. Hispanics seem to be between Negroid and Caucazoid.

[alexandrian]

BioMan said:

While Europeon whites seem to be closer to Mongoloids then Egyptians.

Example on how far apart Negroids and Mongoloids

when it comes to IQ Negroid average the lowest while Asians average the highest. Whites in the middle. When it comes to life expectancy Negroid average the lowest while Asians average the highest even when given equal living Caucasoid in the middle). When it comes Penis Size and Running ability Mongoloids are the lowest/smallest while Negroid are the fastest/largest. Caucasoid again in the middle. Austroloids at times are below or above blacks in some categories. I don’t know where to put them on. The same applies to people from the Middle East. They can be between Negroid and Caucozoids or between Caucozoids and Mongoloids, there is no absolute category for them. Hispanics seem to be between Negroid and Caucazoid.

Do you mean Europeans are closer to Mongloids than they are to Egyptians or that Europeans are closer to Mongoloids then Egyptians are? There's a big difference there. I agree with most of your characterizations though, Negroid and Mongoloid do seem to be opposites, Caucasoids in middle, Middle Eastern/North Africans are in between Caucasoids and negroids when it comes to things like penis size and between European Caucasoids and Mongoloids when it comes to IQ. Hispanics, as you pointed out, are almost always between blacks and whites in every category.

[BioMan]

I mean that Europeans are usually closer to Asians then Egyptians are closer to Asians. Egyptians have more Negroid blood in them because they live in the African continent.

I guess it depends though, for example india has darkskinned people who look caucasian, asian etc. Theres even that famous bollywood celeberity with milk white skin and green eyes.

[alexandrian]

BioMan said:

I mean that Europeans are usually closer to Asians then Egyptians are closer to Asians.

Oh, ok, that's correct

[Faelcind]

Bioman a boxer or training martial artist of most discplines generates the majority of their punching power in their hips(a v shaped torso is advantageous in creating this sort of torque). I am a martial artist myself so I am well aware of this. I can barely bench my body weight but I can punch far hard then men I have know who could bench double theres. However I have recently been doing a lot of research on weight lifting and I can tell you that its equally true that the legs and hips and lower torso produce the majorty of a professional weightlifters power too, so based on your argument you would expect that African would dominate here too. The fact is that as far as muscle power is concerned the advantage africans have in leg strength would be equally true of upper body strenght the one place you might have an argument is simply in proportions africans have smaller upper bodies in perportion to lower bodies then europeans or especially asians.

As to asian more specifically chinese olympic performance (no other asian nation has dominated anything besides gymanstics, handball and ping pong) if you have not heard of the steroid allegations you simply don't pay much attention to olymic sport.

Here is an article talking about steroid abuse in swimming.
[ftp]http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/dept/coachsci/swimming/drugs/gendreau.htm[/ftp]

And another
[ftp]http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/drugs/stories/top10.html#6[/ftp]

An article on the Pan asian games

[ftp]http://www.asiaweek.com/asiaweek/98/1204/feat2.html[/ftp]

Steve Sailer on Weight Lifting

" Even today, this pattern of women's records coming mostly from communist countries continues: four of this decade's five female marks were set by teenagers at the Chinese National Games, where tough drug testing is politically impossible. (The 1997 Games in Shanghai were such a bacchanal of doping that all 24 women's weightlifting records were broken, but weightlifting's governing officials had the guts to refuse to ratify any of these absurd marks.) In contrast to the astounding accomplishments by China's fuel-injected women, Chinese men's performances remain mediocre. [Note: a few weeks after this was published, the Chinese Women's Swim team was disgraced at the World Championships in Australia, when a Chinese woman swimmer was caught trying to smuggle Human Growth Hormone into the country, and numerous teammates were caught by steroid testing."

[ftp]http://www.isteve.com/gendrgap.htm[/ftp]

The Chinese are genereally considered the dirtiest country as far as steroid abuse since east germany, which by the way the are similar to in the fact that by and large the greatest of their success have been female atheletes who benifit most of from testerone.

I doubt Australoids are all that complicated the are descended from UP paleolithic early modern humans and probably are quite close to the baseline east africans that provide the bulk of all of our ancestry, they have very linear builds with the lowest sitting heights in the world(IE. longest legs) they are built much like east africans but usually not quite as hard in musclulature. I would guess just on physical apperance and adaption that the would be somewhat between east africans and north africans in physical attributes and be exceptional long distance runners, on the other hand they been most succesfull as sprinters so far, however I think the sample level is to small to tell us anything other then they have bodies with good running mechanics, and australia to most famous aborginal sprinters were if mixed ancestry.

No if you are including Melanasians and Polynesians in that groups those are two very different stories.

[nockwasright]

Could it be that quality of the punches is given more by quickedness and coordination of the boxer than on overall strenght? Male weightlifters medalists (females do not count, for the reasons well stated in the article quoted by Falecind) are usually from Germany, Balkans, Slav countries. Also in the USA's olympic team Blacks are under represented in strenght sports (weightlifting, shot put etc.). I think that pure strenght, as the ability to move weight is generally associated with Central Europeans and Slavs, expecially southern Slavs. All this doesn't prove anything, obviously, but it would be nice to ghater some data on the subject.

[BioMan]

Africans have smaller upper body strength. Especially in the hip area. Evolution probably explains this because African babies average smaller heads at birth so African mothers needed smaller hips. Males and females are very similar so the same is true for African males. Not only are the bone size ratio different but so is the musculature.

And what about lifts like curling and bench pressing which doesn’t involve the legs much if at all. Furthermore hip strength is a part of upper body strength. And hip strength is a vital vital vital part of many Olympic pressess like snatches, clean and jerk and clean press. And evolution wise perhaps blacks were given strong legs yet saw it as unnecessary to give them stronger arms. Look at ostriches for example they have very powerful legs yet weak upper body strength(because it was unnecessary). Perhaps running in the African plains required lots of leg speed and such. While venturing out in cold and harsh conditions of Europe and Asia required stronger upper body for climbing and jabbing spears through artic animals(artic animals have tougher protection like thick fur or a layer of fat, polar bears have both).


Anyways what about those South Korean, Thai, Vietnam and Indonesian weightlifters who won gold in lifting? Those countries obviously do not use steroids. Europeons are much more likely to use steroids.

And how on earth would a Chinese athlete pass the steroid test to enter the Olympics?

And about Asians not being good at sports involving power, is that why the dominate in things like taekwondo and judo? Heck in the wrestling category of the 4 weight classess in the womens division, Japanese women got 2 golds. A Chinese women got 1 gold. Im pretty sure your not going to point your fingers and say “OMG Japan uses steroid”. Heck I doubt the Chinese can get its athletes to take steroids while passing the tests to compete in the Olympics. Korean men won gold and silver, Japanese dudes got 2 bronze in wrestling. You vastly underestimate mongoloids.

[Springa]

I don't want to be annoying, but why is it that so many people have a hard time writing the right vowels? I've noticed it before, it's weird...
Bioman here doesn't seem to like the letter A very much: he writes "EuropeOns", "CaucOzoids", "AustrOloids", etc...
I mean, I'm no Shakespeare when it comes to dominating the English language, but I've notived that this vowell thing is a pretty common thing.

BioMan said:

When it comes to power sports involving the legs and hips(sprinting, high jumping) its usually Africans who dominate this category . When it comes to power sports involving upper body strength however they do not, its quite the opposite. You rarely if ever see them in upper body strength sports. Africans also have the smallest hip average. White in the middle Asians the largest hip ratio.

Africans still can punch very hard in boxing, the reason behind this is because punching power is not determined by hand strength alone. Look at a power puncher like Tyson in his prime and you’ll see that his punching power comes not only from his hand but also the twisting of his hips and positioning + proper alignment of his legs. Power punches use much more than arm strength alone.

Secondly Key word “widely” secondly ive never heard of the supposed steroid abuse in China. Its usually the Caucasian countries associated with steroid abuse. Thirdly in order to compete in the Olympics you have to go through steroid tests. That Greek 400 meter runner refused to run when he was suspected of steroid abuse(he didn’t take the test because he knew the results would expose the truth) Asians arnt as physically weak as media paints them to be(studious nerd or martial artists who relies on speed and reflexes rather than strength).

Austroloids are so complicated though. When it comes to race you can separate them into 3 major categories Negroid, Caucasoid, Mongoloids. Negroid and Mongoloid seem to always be on opposite poles. While Europeon whites seem to be closer to Mongoloids then Egyptians.

Example on how far apart Negroids and Mongoloids

when it comes to IQ Negroid average the lowest while Asians average the highest. Whites in the middle. When it comes to life expectancy Negroid average the lowest while Asians average the highest even when given equal living Caucasoid in the middle). When it comes Penis Size and Running ability Mongoloids are the lowest/smallest while Negroid are the fastest/largest. Caucasoid again in the middle. Austroloids at times are below or above blacks in some categories. I don’t know where to put them on. The same applies to people from the Middle East. They can be between Negroid and Caucozoids or between Caucozoids and Mongoloids, there is no absolute category for them. Hispanics seem to be between Negroid and Caucazoid.

[Solomon]

Also, remember to put the apostrophe in the right place when writing contractions (i.e. didn't, not did'nt). I've noticed Kame making this mistake, it's really annoying.

[Hallam]

Faelcind said:

This does seem kind of fun I never played D&D though so I can't really play I would make few comments.

I would also be wary of using asian olympic performance as indicator of ability because China is widely beleived to have the most sophisticated state sponsored doping system in international sports.

This is BS. Do you seriously believe that a dinasaur of a sports program from China can produce technology surpassing the US or any western nation for that matter?

Doping technology is no different than any type of technology. It is a function of the ability of the country to produce innovative drugs and techniques that is dependent on its resources. In this sense, the US is by far ahead of everyone else as it spends literally, billion of more dollars than China and man hrs. To believe otherwise is to be superstitious. As I already pointed out, per Capita GDP is the best predictor of olympic success available.

The US has had many athletes caught and have admitted to using steroids in the past olympics. The Chinese, none. The difference is that the US has the technology to get away with it while many other developing nations do not. Fact is, there is a even playing field in the developed nations in athletics as most the the top athgletes are on drugs especially in the power events. So even if China was doping, they would only even the playing field, not advance. Just look at Balco scandal and the many otehr scandals that have since surfaced implicating US athletes.

This is a very racist thread. There has never been any evidence to suggest that Asians have wider hips or any of this other nonsense. No one has yet to explain the great success of some one like Liu Xiang who has the WR for the 110 hurdles. Only six other men have ever ran it under 13 sec. All of them are of west African ancestry. No one can explain the success of Chinese power lifters. The strongest woman in the world is Chinese as one example among many other power lifting examples No one can explain the suuccess of Japanese sprinters (identical 100m records to whites) who are equal to whites and perhaps will outshine them in the near future. Chinese athletes will liekly even outshine them. These athletes passed tests that were able to detect Americans who used, using the best doping technology in the world. It is superstitious and even bigoted to suggest that China is able to do what the US cannot given all the facts and basic common sense suggesting otherwise.