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Post by alexandrian on Mar 15, 2005 17:59:54 GMT -5
WHat does the article prove?
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Post by shango on Mar 16, 2005 8:09:59 GMT -5
Alexandrian,
This is one article expressing a growing conclusion of academics that AE is derived at least partly from thom the people who emigrated from the Sahara after it dried up. We all know that previously many wanted to attribute AE to the supposed Mesopotamians who entered into Lower Egypt in the distant past.
You and others constantly say Egypt had to thing to do with West Africa. I'm saying and repeating the words of people like Marianne Cornevin, Malika Hachid and others who saw the Sahara as the matrix which spawned TaMeri(Egypt), TaSeti(Nubia), The Berberophones and West Africans. The pastoral lifestyle led to what is depicted on temple walls. The oldest burial mound in Africa is in Niger at Tin Hanakaten. The archaeologist found bones of elongated Africans - Black Giants. The Bible would call them possibly Anakim(Anaqim)!
There are many forums discussing this issue. So, I don't want to repeat what others say all the time. And contrary to what you might think, I continuosly tell my African American friends online to look at West Africa's archaeology which has been greatly overlooked.
The countries of the Sahara/Sahel from Senegal and Mauretania to Chad hold the key for me. I am looking at their customs and religions and folklore. The Tuareg, Songhai, Dogon, Nuer, and other nomads and pastoralists are giving archaeologists/scientists new clues. This is not just something coming out of my own head.
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Post by shango on Mar 16, 2005 8:16:54 GMT -5
I was one of the first if not the first on Afrocentric boards to introduce the Rock Art topic very strongly. This Rock Art or L'Art Rupestre in French is a timecapsule to Proto-Egyptian days. The figures throughout the Sahara are shown in a reddishbrown hue almostly exactly the same color as most people on AE walls. This is the color of cattle and cattle was main animal of the AE's. It was found in the predynastic site of Nabta Playa. Hence, The same stylized horns seen above the head of Aset(Isis) is seen in the Saharan caves and mountain sides. This is the same horn shaping technique used today by the Fulanis, and Sudanese tribes. And who can forget the AE text the Cattle of Ra?
I can go on and on with parallel themes.
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Post by imhotep06 on Mar 16, 2005 16:04:06 GMT -5
You are wrong and you refuse to read. I gave you the evidence in cemetary L escavated by Bruce Williams and his team. Heru is a southern Netcher. Ra is a southern Netcher. The pharonic lines come from the south and has already been shown to you. Please provide your evidence that it comes from somewhere else. Asar Imhotep www.mochasuite.com Of course, but this was because Egypt influenced Nubia. There is no evidence to suggest it happened the other way around. Nubia was Egypt's sole black AFrican trading partner, all its other chief allies and political/economic partners were either Berber, Middle Eastern, or Mediterranean European.
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Post by alexandrian on Mar 16, 2005 18:21:34 GMT -5
You are wrong and you refuse to read. I gave you the evidence in cemetary L escavated by Bruce Williams and his team. Heru is a southern Netcher. Ra is a southern Netcher. The pharonic lines come from the south and has already been shown to you. Please provide your evidence that it comes from somewhere else. Asar Imhotep www.mochasuite.com You can find genetic, pictorial, and Greco-Roman evidence throughout this thread. I won't waste my time finding it for you. The Nubian excavation proves absolutely nothing.
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Post by alexandrian on Mar 16, 2005 18:25:13 GMT -5
Alexandrian, This is one article expressing a growing conclusion of academics that AE is derived at least partly from thom the people who emigrated from the Sahara after it dried up. We all know that previously many wanted to attribute AE to the supposed Mesopotamians who entered into Lower Egypt in the distant past. You and others constantly say Egypt had to thing to do with West Africa. I'm saying and repeating the words of people like Marianne Cornevin, Malika Hachid and others who saw the Sahara as the matrix which spawned TaMeri(Egypt), TaSeti(Nubia), The Berberophones and West Africans. The pastoral lifestyle led to what is depicted on temple walls. The oldest burial mound in Africa is in Niger at Tin Hanakaten. The archaeologist found bones of elongated Africans - Black Giants. The Bible would call them possibly Anakim(Anaqim)! There are many forums discussing this issue. So, I don't want to repeat what others say all the time. And contrary to what you might think, I continuosly tell my African American friends online to look at West Africa's archaeology which has been greatly overlooked. The countries of the Sahara/Sahel from Senegal and Mauretania to Chad hold the key for me. I am looking at their customs and religions and folklore. The Tuareg, Songhai, Dogon, Nuer, and other nomads and pastoralists are giving archaeologists/scientists new clues. This is not just something coming out of my own head. I too think that the AEs derived from a common North African source as Berbers, as proven by the genetic link between Egyptians and Morroccan Berbers. However, there are absolutely no genetic relations between Berber/Egyptians and WEst Africans. No genetic study has even found a remotely strong link. As for where they came from, it could be three things, all of which have equally strong evidence: 1. Native North African source like Berbers 2. Entered Horn of AFrica from south Arabia and continued northward via the Nile with limited mixing with other groups 3. Descendants of Sumerians/Canaanites who entered Egypt through Sinai. It's not that big, a drive across it takes roughly six hours, and a walk would take no more than a few weeks if done well. There used to be a variety of small oases with bitter water that nomads would sweeten with mannah. There are numerous plants growing in Sinai, particularly in the mountainous region. Traveling across Sinai provides far less challengers then going all the way up the Nile en masse or trekking across the Sahara. Face it, your West African, you'd stick out like a sore thumb in Egypt today, you have no connection to Egypt.
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Post by shango on Mar 16, 2005 20:00:18 GMT -5
Face it, your West African, you'd stick out like a sore thumb in Egypt today, you have no connection to Egypt. Alexandrian, I am African American with lighter skin and long Semitic nose due to my Jewish forefathers and relatively thin lips. I have met Coptic Christians living in NYC. I have met Egyptians who look just like African Americans. That's why I gave Shenuda a hard time with those pics. These people look like ME! You don't get it! The Upper Deputees look like my relatives. That's what I was trying to tell you all along. I know all about the Coptic church. People were trying to convert me online. Yeah, St. Mark and St. Matthew traveled down the Nile!. I went to school with Coptic Christians. They just found a new Gnostic manuscript in an Egyptian temple recently.
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Post by shango on Mar 16, 2005 20:17:05 GMT -5
weekly.ahram.org.eg/2002/598/li1.htmI've decided not to post anymore after today on this Forum for at least a while or perhaps never. But, before I go, a word to Imhotep, TopDog, and any other African Americans here....Isn't it strange? A strange twist of fate! The Africans who were enslaved in the meanest form of slavery in the Americas turned out to be the #1 Black group in the world. We are always openhanded, openheared and always trying o embrace all. We are really the only group to disregard tribal affiliations since we blended into one and we have disregarded differences in skin color. Now, isn't this a trip? Berter, Igu, Alexandrian et al. They are the Afrikaners of the North. The Ancient Egyptians were too hospitable, too openhearted, too openhanded, to all embracing. They let too many foreigners into their northern border and millenia later this is what we get. Thank God for the Internet. We would not have known! Our Black leaders have always gone around the world trying to help somebody else. It was our ancestors Civil Rights struggles that led to Third World immigration. How ironic. If you want to hang with MochaSuite and others, send me a private message and I will show you where to go online. Some of you posted so much, you might as well have your own blog or website. While you are studying Ancient Egypt, look at the cultures all over the African continent and see a million connections. All these cultures have the same roots going back to about 200,00 0 B.C. I could say more. But, it's time to stop! Thank God I am American. Thank God I have an American heritage going back centuries and to the Native Americans. Long live the USA!
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Post by mike2 on Mar 16, 2005 20:22:49 GMT -5
The white man has never had a monopoly on slavery. West Africans were sold to their white masters by their OWN people most of the time. Slavery is the shame of all humanity, not of one race.
It's silly to think a few overzealous North Africans like Alexandrian and Igu means most of us white people here don't respect black Africans. I have the highest degree of respect for all the non-white races. We're all in this together.
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Post by alexandrian on Mar 16, 2005 20:54:17 GMT -5
weekly.ahram.org.eg/2002/598/li1.htmI've decided not to post anymore after today on this Forum for at least a while or perhaps never. But, before I go, a word to Imhotep, TopDog, and any other African Americans here....Isn't it strange? A strange twist of fate! The Africans who were enslaved in the meanest form of slavery in the Americas turned out to be the #1 Black group in the world. We are always openhanded, openheared and always trying o embrace all. We are really the only group to disregard tribal affiliations since we blended into one and we have disregarded differences in skin color. Now, isn't this a trip? Berter, Igu, Alexandrian et al. They are the Afrikaners of the North. The Ancient Egyptians were too hospitable, too openhearted, too openhanded, to all embracing. They let too many foreigners into their northern border and millenia later this is what we get. Thank God for the Internet. We would not have known! Our Black leaders have always gone around the world trying to help somebody else. It was our ancestors Civil Rights struggles that led to Third World immigration. How ironic. If you want to hang with MochaSuite and others, send me a private message and I will show you where to go online. Some of you posted so much, you might as well have your own blog or website. While you are studying Ancient Egypt, look at the cultures all over the African continent and see a million connections. All these cultures have the same roots going back to about 200,00 0 B.C. I could say more. But, it's time to stop! Thank God I am American. Thank God I have an American heritage going back centuries and to the Native Americans. Long live the USA! I love it how you post an article written by a non-Egyptian black. That man is Senegalese, son of Kwame Nkrumah! Furthermore, isn't is sad that the son of one of your great heroes of black nationalism leaves his ancestral home because of its pathetic ways and instead settles in Egypt? Yes, it is sad I find your post pathetic. Black African civilizations have been studied, and no strong connections have been shown with Egyptians. Show me on "strong" connection between Ancient Egypt and ancient (which in the context of black Africa probably only extends several hundred years ago) West African and South African civilizations.
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Post by alexandrian on Mar 16, 2005 20:56:15 GMT -5
Alexandrian, I am African American with lighter skin and long Semitic nose due to my Jewish forefathers and relatively thin lips. I have met Coptic Christians living in NYC. I have met Egyptians who look just like African Americans. That's why I gave Shenuda a hard time with those pics. These people look like ME! You don't get it! The Upper Deputees look like my relatives. That's what I was trying to tell you all along. I know all about the Coptic church. People were trying to convert me online. Yeah, St. Mark and St. Matthew traveled down the Nile!. I went to school with Coptic Christians. They just found a new Gnostic manuscript in an Egyptian temple recently. What are you trying to prove by saying you know Egyptians, or a little about Coptic history? You even admit that the only way you look remotely Egyptian is through Jewish blood. If you look anything like the MPs posted than you are not black. You have not shown a single connection between Egypt and West Africa. Face the facts, as unpleasant as they may be.
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Post by alexandrian on Mar 16, 2005 20:59:52 GMT -5
It's silly to think a few overzealous North Africans like Alexandrian and Igu means most of us white people here don't respect black Africans. I have the highest degree of respect for all the non-white races. We're all in this together. If we are overzealous, than these Afrocentrists are super, super, fanatic, extremist, truthkilling zealots.
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Post by mike2 on Mar 16, 2005 21:04:05 GMT -5
Agreed for the most part, but when you start calling the ancestral homes of West Africans "pathetic" or the like, well-- let's just say that's a little condescending and doesn't help your case all that much. I try to be at least a LITTLE objective. I also think assuming that the Egyptians received nothing from black Africans such as the Nubians or other Nilotes is presumptuous. These peoples surely had contributed something or another to Egyptian civilization. I think I'm going to start spotlighting some real black African peoples in the coming weeks to counter all this Egypt talk that goes to the gutter real fast.
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Post by santana on Mar 16, 2005 21:15:15 GMT -5
im not really sure or understand whta his post meant.. or the site from ahram weekly.. i still dont get his point.. we never said EGYPTIANS ARE SOOO WHITE IN COmplexion dude.. we are dark yes tanned yes.. but i dunno.. alexandrian what did the article mean
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Post by alexandrian on Mar 16, 2005 21:49:00 GMT -5
im not really sure or understand whta his post meant.. or the site from ahram weekly.. i still dont get his point.. we never said EGYPTIANS ARE SOOO WHITE IN COmplexion dude.. we are dark yes tanned yes.. but i dunno.. alexandrian what did the article mean It was pretty pointless. Old too. Written by the only black writer on the staff of Al-Ahram weekly to document the rise of whitening creams and hair straightenres among Egyptian women. He also spewed this bullshit about how a "lighter elite" sometimes looks down upon a "darker lower class." I'm guessing he felt out of place in Egypt. That was the last domestic article he covered, he is now basically consigned to covering the Sudan, Nile Water Issues, or European issues. Basically foreign matters. He did do a special during Egypt's horribly mismanaged bid to host Mondial 2010 trying to stress Egypt's African-ness against fears it wasn't "African" enough to be the first "African" nation to host the world cup. The article had little or not relevence to the topic at hand.
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