Kame
Full Member
Posts: 122
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Post by Kame on Feb 27, 2005 23:36:13 GMT -5
I would'nt quote any of them ;D "Classifications"? yeah if your a 19th century race scientist. Most geneticists today don't see things as simply as Coon did. They follow a more inal model of phenotypical/genetic distribution. Who cares about "sub-races" anyway? The thing about those is that you can call any family of individuals a sub-race. Where do you stop?
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Post by mike2 on Feb 28, 2005 0:05:12 GMT -5
I would'nt quote any of them ;D "Classifications"? yeah if your a 19th century race scientist. Most geneticists today don't see things as simply as Coon did. They follow a more inal model of phenotypical/genetic distribution. Who cares about "sub-races" anyway? The thing about those is that you can call any family of individuals a sub-race. Where do you stop? That's very true. I think the subject of subracial types in the practical sense only has descriptive value today, but as a component of how racial types were formed in antiquity it is still an important science. That's why people try to simplify the types.
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Post by topdog on Feb 28, 2005 2:56:56 GMT -5
And all genetic, physical anthropologic, linguistic, and common sense evidence is against your opinion that they weren't, buddy. Sorry. Have you ever read any of the published data on East Africans very carefully? The evidence doesn't support what you say. What is `common sense´evidence?
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Post by Shenuda on Feb 28, 2005 12:21:34 GMT -5
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Post by alexandrian on Feb 28, 2005 18:20:18 GMT -5
What's your point shenuda? Even you admit that Egyptians are predominantly Mediterranean Caucasian, so there. What's you opinion on the question at hand?
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Post by Shenuda on Mar 1, 2005 2:12:20 GMT -5
What's your point shenuda? Even you admit that Egyptians are predominantly Mediterranean Caucasian, so there. What's you opinion on the question at hand? What do you mean? Egyptians are mostly mediterrean caucasoids, but for me it´s not any dogma as for you. Clearly, for you it´s some kind of obsession.
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Post by shango on Mar 1, 2005 8:50:57 GMT -5
Shenuda and Alexandrian, Kame is telling you that according to the American system of classification most of the people in your photos would be considered Black. They are scientifically Caucasoid with tihnner noses and lips just as many African Americas, but having Caucasoid features does not equal White. The most famous Egyptian on American TV right now is proabably Hoda Kotb. She looks just like the rest of the Black women on TV who also do news programs. rss.msnbc.msn.com/id/3949160Historically, since the US had a White majorty from Northern European countries, mixed race people were grouped wih those fully Black. Over time the general complexion of African Americans gets lighter and lighter. My favorite African American actress currently. Ari Nicole Parker www.geocities.com/thedukescelebs/nicoleaparkerHere, in the NorthEast, Blacks, Hispanics, Indians, Asians and MiddleEasterners live in the same neighborhoods. Shango
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Post by Shenuda on Mar 1, 2005 9:53:36 GMT -5
I don´t care about the American system of classification.
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Post by mike2 on Mar 1, 2005 15:15:10 GMT -5
I don´t care about the American system of classification. Agreed. If "white" and "black" are not synonymous with "Caucasoid" and "Congoid" respectively, they are social constructs and little more.
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Post by alexandrian on Mar 1, 2005 18:25:49 GMT -5
Here, in the NorthEast, Blacks, Hispanics, Indians, Asians and MiddleEasterners live in the same neighborhoods. Shango I'm Egyptian in America, and I'm not considered black, none of my relatives are either. Some of them are actually quite dark- like a deep brown, and yet they're always confused for Persians or Pakistanis. I'm not really aware of a lot of instances where Egyptians I know have been thought of as black, especially not the adults, though it probably happens with some of the kids who immerse themselves in gangster culture. At this point there are enough Middle Easterners and South Asians in America where they are confused for each other, i.e. Egyptians for Indians, Lebanese for Persians, etc. etc. By the way, I don't know where you live, but not many Egyptians or Persians live in Compton or South Central or Harlem.
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Post by shango on Mar 1, 2005 19:07:22 GMT -5
Alexandrian,
I am in NYC! I've ben in Harlem and have seen MiddleEasterners there and have seen Egyptians mistaken for African American/Hispanics etc.
And I've talked with people who were not Black on this subject and they agree. But, maybe they don't in front of your face.
Shango
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Post by alexandrian on Mar 1, 2005 19:20:47 GMT -5
Alexandrian, And I've talked with people who were not Black on this subject and they agree. But, maybe they don't in front of your face. haha...ok, I'm sure that's it....maybe they were just saying that to you to make you happy..who knows Anyway, obviously a lot of Egyptians can be confused for Hispanics, and that's probably what they get confused for more often after other Arabs or South Asians. There are also probably a few Egyptians who immerse themselves in ghetto culture and get few confused for Afro-Americans. However, I have NEVER been confused for an Afro-American, nor has ANY of my relatives. Even my dark-skinned relatives, who have a brown skin tone, get confused almost always for Persians, Pakistanis, or Mexicans, and when our family goes to Persian restaurants, we always get spoken to in Farsi. I'm just saying, even the dark-skinned Egyptians I know have never been confused for Afro-Americans and me being a part of the Egyptian-American community, I'm sure i know of many more egyptians and their stories than you do.
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Post by alexandrian on Mar 1, 2005 19:23:04 GMT -5
btw, you really think Hoda Kotb looks black?
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Post by shango on Mar 1, 2005 19:45:29 GMT -5
Yes, of course, she falls into the range of appearance of African Americans. She is not jet black with negroid features. But, she looks American Black, New World Black. That's why I mentioned her name.
If you are in America, all you have to do is look at TV or go around in a Black neighborhood and see.
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Post by alexandrian on Mar 1, 2005 19:53:39 GMT -5
Yes, of course, she falls into the range of appearance of African Americans. She is not jet black with negroid features. But, she looks American Black, New World Black. That's why I mentioned her name. If you are in America, all you have to do is look at TV or go around in a Black neighborhood and see. She could pass for a Jewish mother around here...she has almost no Negroid features...she just looks typically Middle Eastern...she's lighter than that black lady from GMA, who keep in mind, probably has more Caucasian blood than anything else (I think her name is Robin Roberts). Anyway, clearly my Egyptian-American experience and that of most Egyptian-Americans I know is different from your perception. Also, I still don't think Middle Easterners get associated with blacks often, keep in mind the average income from a Middle Eastern American (Persians, Lebanese, Egyptians, and Syrians being the most plentiful) is around twice that of the average African American.
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