|
Post by Springa on Feb 1, 2005 15:18:06 GMT -5
It's not because of the rapes. Someone has already said this, but the reason is that the diaspora was initially pretty much comprised of men. The men would arrive in Europe and marry European women, who would convert first, of course. Don't ask me who were these women or how they would convince their parents to let them marry foreigners of a different religion. I believe it has something to do with the ancient custom of daughter selling. And of course, through the course of 2 millenia, even the most looked down things will have happened every once in a while. And customs vary through time. Also, it's considered really bad to get married to gentile women. But it's not that bad to get married to converts. And then again, most taboos exist for a reason, and the reason is: it's been done before. If no one does something, there's no reason to prohibit it, is there? About the raping in eastern europe. Again, I am pretty much just talkn out of my ass about this one. Its just stuff that other Jews have said. I really don't know if any of its true or not. Its just hearsay. If you ask your average religious jew for instance why there are some blond haired blue eyed jews, he would say its because of all the rapes. I think Jews in eastern europe looked down on marrying goyim so they pretty much kept to themselves. And I am pretty sure they discourage conversions most of the time. Therefore rape seems like the only other explanation for the european features. Who knows though? I sure don't.
|
|
|
Post by Melnorme on Feb 1, 2005 15:34:36 GMT -5
'Rapes' cannot explain European admixture in Ashkenazi Jews ( nor probably can they explain 'admixture' in almost any other population ) ; very early admixture during the initial formation of Jewish communities remains the most likely hypothesis.
|
|
|
Post by Human on Feb 1, 2005 16:07:00 GMT -5
earlier jewish settler in europe mixed to a certain extent with the locals. after the first jewish temple fell, destroyed by the Babylonians, it is reported that some jewish escaped (at that time) to Spain. And jewish colonies throughout central Europe are as old as Judea became a province of the Roman Empire. What is really amazing, surprising, awesome, is the fact that the Jews managed to maintain some of their distinct semitic caucasoid look, in spite of such a long time elsewhere in Europe. Even the blondest can have some semitic lips, semitic eyes or semitic nose. Many are swarthy, although living in very cold conditions for as long as 2000 years or so. But breeding with others has taken place even when they were well settled in the land of Israel. The ginger King David, who reportedly lived around 1000 years before Christ, had according to the ancient writings a great grandmother who was non Jewish, the famous Ruth. This implies their expected Messiah (who is said to be one of the David lineage) will have (or had, according to the Christians) some non Jewish blood too...
|
|
|
Post by Solomon on Feb 1, 2005 16:24:59 GMT -5
^Well, Germans have said and done some pretty nutty things in the past. They're just plain wierd. lol. I'm half-German, btw.
|
|
|
Post by Human on Feb 1, 2005 16:37:03 GMT -5
is a relatively recent phenomenon.
yet, they have impacted a lot. our moder world is greatly influenced by Germanics, be them the Anglo-Saxon, be them the Dutch or even the Germans. France is named after a germanic tribe, the Franks. Germanic have left their print in Iberia as well as in Italia.
polish slavic civilization? Now that is a too recent phenomenon. The Russians come first. The polish have Copernicus and Chopin (who was half polish anyway). They are far behind their Germanic neighbours. I bet, for instance, the GDP of Netherlands (with a population of 15 million people in a land gained to the sea) is far greater than the one of big Poland. And Netherlands also had to gain its independence from Spain...
Wieland, the Schmidt, is a recommended tale to get some introduction on Germanic spirit or whatever.
Jewish and other ancient civilizations from the Middle East are far more ancient, and pretty interesting. One cannot compare the history of the Middle East with the history of Eastern Europe... Eastern Europe is too far behind. This fact is acknowlegded by the best Eastern Europeans: read Tostoy and Dostoievsky, for instance.
I appreciate the most however classical Roman and Greek civilizations... as well as Renaissance Italy.
im mostly german, with some iberian and italian, and distant english ancestry.
|
|
|
Post by Dienekes on Feb 1, 2005 17:05:30 GMT -5
I'd say that during ancient times the Jews, like other ancient peoples were distinctly patrilineal and thus were mostly "Jewish" in their Y-chromosomes but with non-Jewish mtDNA slowly accumulating. When the system changed to matrilineal descent, then conversely they started receiving more non-"Jewish" genetic elements via foreign men.
I'd also like to note that studies on Jewish genetic admixture so far have concentrated on admixture from Poles, Germans, etc., i.e., the later admixture and not on what may have occurred during Roman Empire times.
In any case, admixture of ethnic groups is an elusive concept, as no time period can claim to lack it entirely. The Jews like other peoples first became self-conscious of being a separate ethnic group ~3ky ago, and then had a continuous history of admixture of varying intensity and from varying sources.
|
|
Berter
New Member
Et si on fait un tour ensemble, Nouna!?
Posts: 6
|
Post by Berter on Feb 2, 2005 17:43:52 GMT -5
The ginger King David, who reportedly lived around 1000 years before Christ, had according to the ancient writings a great grandmother who was non Jewish, the famous Ruth. This implies their expected Messiah (who is said to be one of the David lineage) will have (or had, according to the Christians) some non Jewish blood too... Wasnt Ruth from another neighbouring semitic people (moabite or something) !?..If I'm true, then Jesus were 100% semitic, granted that he did actually exist .
|
|
|
Post by buddyrydell on Feb 2, 2005 22:09:03 GMT -5
Wasnt Ruth from another neighbouring semitic people (moabite or something) !?..If I'm true, then Jesus were 100% semitic, granted that he did actually exist . Well I've never heard anything to suggest that Jesus was anything other than of full Jewish heritage, don't know if it's true, but I'd all those years of Catholic Sunday school never said otherwise ;D.
|
|
|
Post by CuriousGuy on Feb 6, 2005 13:43:00 GMT -5
Why are they calling Lebanese, Arabs? These people are not Arabs, they have maybe 10% Arab genes. They are the Phoenician Cannanites. Ralph Nader is Lebanese. Doug Flutie is Lebanese. Tony Shalhoub is Lebanese. There are some very hot Lebanese women. They are mostly of Meditaranean stock. www.fabuloussavers.com/wallpapers/celebs/xsean27.jpg
|
|
|
Post by Solomon on Feb 6, 2005 15:17:53 GMT -5
^Of course they're not Arabs, but by today's definition anyone who speaks Arabic is an Arab. Lebanese Christians have rejected this identity while most Lebanese Muslims embrace it.
|
|