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Post by nymos on Jan 8, 2006 16:33:14 GMT -5
Western Calendar is Christian! We are in the year 2006....2006 years since the year Jesus was born....hence "before christ" and "anno domini" (in portuguese we say "depois de cristo", after christ...) It's quite easy to understand....the only problem is that there ins't a year zero...the year christ was born...still..that doesn't change the fact that the so called Western Calendar is a Christian Calendar, and there are even differences, or there were...between the various christian rites...The Orthodox calendar used to be different I think.. Some info: The Julian calendar was introduced in 46 BC by Julius Caesar and took force in 45 BC (709 ab urbe condita). It was chosen after consultation with the Alexandrian astronomer Sosigenes and was probably designed to approximate the tropical year, known at least since Hipparchus. It has a regular year of 365 days divided into 12 months, and a leap day is added to February every four years. Hence the Julian year is on average 365.25 days long.
The Julian calendar remained in use into the 20th century in some countries and is still used by many national Orthodox churches. However, too many leap days are added with respect to the astronomical seasons on this scheme. On average, the astronomical solstices and the equinoxes advance by about 11 minutes per year against the Julian year, causing the calendar to gain a day about every 134 years. While Hipparchus and presumably Sosigenes were aware of the discrepancy, although not of its correct value, it was evidently felt to be of little importance. However, it accumulated significantly over time, and eventually led to the reform of 1582, which replaced the Julian calendar with the more accurate Gregorian calendar.
The Julian calendar was in general use in Europe from the times of the Roman Empire until 1582, when Pope Gregory XIII promulgated the Gregorian Calendar, which was soon adopted by most Catholic countries. The Protestant countries followed later, and the countries of Eastern Europe even later. Great Britain had Thursday 14 September 1752 follow Wednesday 2 September 1752. Sweden adopted the new style calendar in 1753, but also for a twelve-year period starting in 1700 used a modified Julian Calendar. Russia remained on the Julian calendar until after the Russian Revolution (which is thus called the 'October Revolution' but occurred in November according to the Gregorian calendar), in 1917, while Greece continued to use it until 1923. Currently Ethiopia is the only country that still uses the Julian Calendar and forms a major part of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.
Although all Eastern European countries had adopted the Gregorian calendar on or before 1923, their national Eastern Orthodox churches had not. A revised Julian calendar was proposed during a synod in Constantinople in May of 1923, consisting of a solar part which was and will be identical to the Gregorian calendar until the year 2800, and a lunar part which calculated Easter astronomically at Jerusalem. All Orthodox churches refused to accept the lunar part, so almost all Orthodox churches continue to celebrate Easter according to the Julian calendar (the Finnish Orthodox Church uses the Gregorian Easter). The solar part was only accepted by some Orthodox churches, those of Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, Greece, Cyprus, Romania, Poland, Bulgaria (in 1963), and the Orthodox Church in America (although some OCA parishes are permitted to use the Julian calendar). Thus, these churches celebrate the Nativity on the same day that Western Christians do, 25 December Gregorian until 2800. The Orthodox churches of Jerusalem, Russia, Serbia, Georgia, Ukraine, and the Greek Old Calendarists continue to use the Julian calendar for their fixed dates, thus they celebrate the Nativity on 25 December Julian (7 January Gregorian until 2100). The Gregorian calendar, which is the de facto international standard, is used almost everywhere in the world for civil purposes.
How is it Christian if its origins predate Christianity? It's better labeled as European calendar. Just because Christianity was the religion of Europe doesn't make the calendar Christian. More importantly, the calendar being Christian or not is not even important to my argument that today New Year is a secular holiday, while Christmas is Christian.
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Post by Crimson Guard on Jan 8, 2006 16:39:53 GMT -5
It was Roman before it was Christian(ized)! The Christian calendar is stems from the Pope Gregory's reworking's and touchups of Julius Caesars calendar. So the modern calendar is from the Gregorian version,which was from the Julian. The Catholics reworked many dates to coverup with the "pagan" holidays . Jesus's birth was convenient rearranged from sometime after January to December,to fill the very ancient and entrenched festivals of Winter Solstice ,the festivals and rituals of Saturnalia and Brumalia. The worship of Apollo was much alive and strong ,as many believed Constantine the Great actually saw Apollo rather than the crucifix.
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Post by Drooperdoo on Jan 8, 2006 17:02:50 GMT -5
Crimson Guard, Once again, you dazzle us with your wealth of knowledge. But the origin of the European calendar is moot to the celebration of 2,006 years after the Year of Our Lord. New Years commemorates each year we move from that first "holy year".
So, yes, January, February, March, etc. are holdovers from the Roman calendar, but the dating system starting at 1 AD and continuing up to 2006 is Christian in origin. AND THAT'S THE POINT.
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Post by Drooperdoo on Jan 8, 2006 17:11:15 GMT -5
In reply to Nymos, The only reason I singled out the anti-Christian thread that runs through a certain segment of Judaism was because the article about Israeli thugs beating up a guy in a Santa suit. It wasn't "vague liberals" beating up the guy. It was JEWS. (And, believe me, there was nothing "liberal" about them.) Israeli author Victor Ostrovsky wrote about his failed stained glass business in Israel, and how Jews wouldn't buy stained glass because it reminded them of Christianity and churches. There's a very real antagonism between a certain portion of Jewish culture that is the understandable result of centuries of Christian oppression and ostracism. It doesn't help matters if we pretend to be blind, and attribute the antagonism to "VAGUE LIBERALS". That woman who was sued for having a Christian manger scene in front of her house came up before councilman Yaffe and went up before Judge Rothstein , and had to deal with the Miami bureaucracy in a city that is demographically controlled by Jews. It's no coincidence that Christian symbols were banned but Jewish menorahs and stars-of-David were allowed.
It's that sort of chauvinism I was deploring, and saying was related to the Israeli thugs who beat up the guy in the Santa suit.
[You can't fix problems if you pretend they're not there.]
P.S.--Jewish film critic Michael Medved was on C-Span at a Jewish symposium and he acknowledged the antagonism between Christianity and a certain percentage of Jews. He said that it doesn't help matters to attack and persecute Christians, as was done when Mel Gibson made his movie The Passion. He pointed out that Israel's staunchest supporters in America were Christians, and that it was sheer stupidity to keep alienating them by demonstrating such antagonism to their faith and culture. So Jews themselves as well-aware of the undercurrents going on behind the scenes . . . meshes that people are occasionally caught in, such as that poor man in the Santa suit who got beat up by a crowd of Israeli thugs.
P.P.S.--Jews are also in a very unique position. Other minority-religions don't typically attack and antagonize the host-culture, because these newer religions [Buddhism, Islam, Hare Krishas, etc] are new to the West. They didn't get persecuted like the Jews did, hence they don't have the antagonism, the barely-concealed aggression. That's why when the ACLU attacks some Christian holiday or custom, it typically isn't Hindus leading the charge, or Tibetan monks threatening to sue. It's pissed off guys named Schwartz and Silverman and Lipschitz.
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Post by nymos on Jan 8, 2006 20:18:50 GMT -5
Who are you kidding? If you only had to rely on this article, you wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Because as I've already stated, you cannot extrapolate the actions of a bunch of no doubt intoxicated stupid youngsters at a nightclub to behavior and mindset of "the Jews." I noted this in my first reply to you.
You were stumped there, so you had to expand. You had to bring up this supposed war on Christmas fought by "the Jews." And when you did, where did it lead? It lead to the logical conclusion that the war on Christmas is not a Jewish war, as you would like us to believe, but a liberal one. (Some would of course disagree that such a war even exists, but that's besides the point.) Furtheremore, in doing so you've had to make a lot of other spurious claims.
Perhaps, not many people were interested in buying his stained glass. Perhaps, he wasn't a good businessman. Who cares what this guy's reasoning was for failure. Sour grapes, basically.
You still haven't linked me to the article. How about Muslim symbols? Are those being banned too? Surely if those evil Jews ban Christian symbols, they will certainly want to ban the Muslim symbols as well.
Neither did it help matters to make that film. Whatever reaction the film has garnered had just as much validity as the making of the film itself.
Sure, there's some antagonism between Christians and Jews, Christians and Muslims (maybe more than some), Muslims and Jews (well a lot, not some here). But to listen to you it's "the Jews" who are solely responsible for every interreligious antagonism.
Who are you to identify the "problems"? You act as if Jews are unilaterly responsible for any Jewish/Christian antagonism. Should I start bringing up examples of Christian anti-Jewish antagonism? You know what, it would be a lot more serious than Jews not buying stained glass. I know another guy who saw the Jewish "problem". And he had a interesting way of dealing with it. Please, don't pretend to speak out of genuine, benign concern. People who are truly concerned don't make such one-sided baseless accusations.
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Post by nymos on Jan 8, 2006 20:24:30 GMT -5
ACLU is a liberal organization. Their motivation is a liberal one, not Jewish. What did I tell you about listing Jewish surnames, as if it proves anything? When ACLU defended KKK and neo-Nazi groups, was it also pissed off Jewish guys leading the charge?
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Post by Drooperdoo on Jan 8, 2006 21:16:46 GMT -5
Oh, Nymos! Okay, okay, have it your way. Those Israeli kids beating up a guy in a Santa Claus suit and yelling "Dead Christian, dead Christian!" don't reflect a unstated thread of antagonism.
You're right: Those were . . . um . . . love-taps. When Jewish critic Michael Medved said that Jews should stop being antagonistic toward Christians he was just insane, too. I'm sure no one in the room knew what he was talking about, lol.
Victor Ostrovsky who said that his stained glass didn't sell in Israel because Jews associated it with Christian churches--- He was a fool, too.
What does he know about Jewish psychology? --Him being a Jew and an agent for the mossad.
Yeah, I'm sure he's a mental midget.
Winston Churchill, too. In a 1920 article he wrote about the Jewish role in Bolshevims, he lamented the fact that the Bolsheviks banned all churches but left synagogues alone.
Yeah, Churchill was lying, too. (That didn't happen, right?)
That fine young man named Cohen who sued the judge in Alabama for having the Ten Commandments up, his surname "Cohen"--- That's . . . um . . . Catholic, is it?
And lastly that woman in Miami who was ordered to take down Christian decorations--- That was a hallucination, too. By the way, you asked for the source: I gave you her name, the newspaper the story appeared in, the names of the judge and councilman involved. Google it. I did and found a dozen stories on it. Doubtless, you won't--so you can keep convincing yourself that it's all a conspiracy, and that none of this exists.
Suit yourself.
I'm sure you're right: After centuries of persecution, oppression and pogroms, there aren't any Jews who maintain a deep-seated antagonism toward Christianity.
The world is full of love and sunshine. I'm sure you're right. Just don't wear a Santa suit in Israel.
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Post by Crimson Guard on Jan 8, 2006 21:21:03 GMT -5
Interesting fact that Jews also happen to make up the biggest amount of collectors of WW2 era Nazi Regalia and Memorabilia .
Wonder if this also either ties into or has some part in that "Stained Glass" thing?
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Post by nymos on Jan 8, 2006 21:42:16 GMT -5
I see you like to resort to misguided sarcasm with no substance, when have nothing else to say. You effectively ignore what I've said, and decided to put words in my mouth. I'm not going to repeat myself third time on this. Your sarcasm is misguided. I would love to read this article. I would like to read exactly what he said. As far as I know synagogues were closed down as well. Jewish Bolsheviks weren't relegious at all. BTW, your misguided sarcasm is noted again. Trust me, I've googled it and couldn't find the Sun Post article. I can't believe it's that hard for you to provide a link. I'm kind of getting suspicious. Again with the stupid sarcasm, which has no substance and no merit. Why are you putting words in my mouth? Did you read this: "Sure, there's some antagonism between Christians and Jews, Christians and Muslims (maybe more than some), Muslims and Jews (well a lot, not some here). But to listen to you it's "the Jews" who are solely responsible for every interreligious antagonism." or this: "You act as if Jews are unilaterly responsible for any Jewish/Christian antagonism. Should I start bringing up examples of Christian anti-Jewish antagonism? You know what, it would be a lot more serious than Jews not buying stained glass."
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Post by nymos on Jan 8, 2006 21:55:33 GMT -5
By the way, do you still contend that the movement against Christmas, if we accept that such a movement exists, is a Jewish one? Or do you concede that calling it a Jewish movement is disingenuous, when it's actually a Liberal movement?
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Post by nymos on Jan 8, 2006 22:01:55 GMT -5
Tell me, whom did God speak the Ten Commandments to? Who brought them down from Mount Sinai?
Thank you for proving my point.
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Post by Yankel on Jan 8, 2006 22:37:24 GMT -5
Thanksgiving is an American -- not a Christian -- holiday. It has Jewish roots, anyway. And there's nothing particularly Christian about Halloween. Again, it's something most Americans celebrate.
None of these holidays are officially recognized by the Israeli gov't. What's the big deal?
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Post by dukeofpain on Jan 8, 2006 22:50:26 GMT -5
Since when is New Years a "renamed pagan holiday"? It's 2,006 years since Anno Domini-- the year of our lord.Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha P.S.--Jews have their own calendar, their own New Year. Isn't it Rosh Hashana? It's disingenuous to pretend that the January 1st New Year which marks off 2,006 years since Jesus' arrival in the world DOESN'T represent Christian culture . . . that it's "Western". That's why it's the most hypocritical that Jews celebrate it. P.P.S.--Christmas is far less Christian than New Years. The December 25th celebration pre-dates Christianity, and was used as the birth of the Zoastrian god Mithras (who was also said to be born of a virgin). As for the "solstice," cultures all around the world have been celebrating far earlier than that. So for Jews to turn their noses up at Christmas . . . and to celebrate the 2,006 years since the birth of Jesus [in New Years], is the height of hypocrisy. They're on far stronger ground celebrating the once-pagan holidays like Christmas, Halloween, Easter, etc. Hell, Chinese immigrants come [with a far different culture than Judaism to Christianity] and they have no problem respecting Western Christian traditions and participating in them. That's why it's mind-boggling that so many Jews act toward Christmas the way vampires react toward holy water. Hell, look at those Israeli thugs beating up a man in a Santa suit. Why aren't "hate crimes" being lodged against anti-Christian Jews? Er . . .uh . . . never mind. We all know the truth behind that one. This jewish Supremacist wishes for all jews, not to mention non-jews! to stop celebrating any holiday not spoken of in the Torah. Them being saturated in Satanic Paganism and all. www.noahide.com/paganism.htmThe difference is that White supremacists don't have shills in the US govt trumping their agenda with legislation proposals, like the nohide movement and it's "judeo-Christian" agenda, which is a euphemism for it's judeo agenda, do have. Like a certain politician that was nearly voted in as the Supreme Commander of the USA. www.ukar.org/gore10.htmlAnd people say George bushes agenda is scary? Great PR when the "Grand Wizard" of the Noahide movement gets photo ops like this.
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Post by dukeofpain on Jan 8, 2006 22:58:21 GMT -5
Since when is New Years a "renamed pagan holiday"? It's 2,006 years since Anno Domini-- the year of our lord.Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha P.S.--Jews have their own calendar, their own New Year. Isn't it Rosh Hashana? It's disingenuous to pretend that the January 1st New Year which marks off 2,006 years since Jesus' arrival in the world DOESN'T represent Christian culture . . . that it's "Western". Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha First stop with the excessive bwahahahas, you'll bust your spleen. "January 1st New Year which marks off 2,006 years since Jesus' arrival in the world " ? What does December 25th represent? Is it not true that israel follows a lunar calendar and are currently in the year 5000 something?
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Post by nymos on Jan 8, 2006 23:03:11 GMT -5
First stop with the excessive bwahahahas, you'll bust your spleen. "January 1st New Year which marks off 2,006 years since Jesus' arrival in the world " ? What does December 25th represent? Is it not true that israel follows a lunar calendar and are currently in the year 5000 something? The Hebrew calendar is the official calendar of Israel's government, but the Gregorian calendar is much more widely used in Israel's business and day-to-day affairs. What's your point?
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