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Post by Yankel on Nov 23, 2005 20:23:06 GMT -5
Don't be an ass. Abraham is, at the very least, a metaphor meant to represent the Hebrew people. Even L.L. Cavalli-Sforza believes that.
Dude, most people in the Middle East have a common origin. Secondly, the Caucasus region was populated from the Middle East, not the other way around.
The problem is that you're using genetics to prove something that a) deals with linguistics, and b) is generally rejected by scholars. You're acting like you've given us irrefutable proof that the Jewish people were originally from the Caucasus. Newsflash: Assyrians and to an extent Chaldeans, many Lebanese and Syrians, and Samaritans cluster closely with Jews, Kurds and Armenians, as well. Are they from the Caucasus? Kurds themselves aren't even from the Caucasus, and we cluster even closer to them than Armenians!
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Post by Yankel on Nov 23, 2005 20:28:10 GMT -5
WTF?
What 'remark' are you referring to? I didn't insult you.
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Post by Drooperdoo on Nov 23, 2005 20:29:48 GMT -5
Yankel, I'm not going to argue with you. Not because I'm above it, but because I have no qualm with you. You're a first-rate intellect and 9 times out of 10 you're right. (You have a far higher correct rate than I do.) But I appeal to your sense of fairness. You keep repeating that the Caucus was populated from the Fertile Crescent. It was--INITIALLY. But you WILL concede, I hope, that AFTER that initial population, tribes, within recorded history, stormed back down from the north--like the Hyksos, the Hurrians, the Sumerians. Even the "Aryans". None of these groups were from the Middle East, but they stormed into it from the north. It's because of that that I didn't see anything unremarkable about the Hurrians traveling the 50 miles from Georgia to Israel.
* And just to set the record straight. my thesis wasn't based on genetics, but archaeology. I said my interest was first STIRRED by the genetic proximity between Jews, Armenians and Kurds. But it was the archaeological artifact [the Tikunani Prism] that mentioned a tribe called the "Hapiru" that inspired this thread. These Hapiru men all had Hurrian names. If you look up Armenians on Wikipedia, you'll still see references to their Hurrian origins. Since the Hurrians are THOUGHT to have come from the Caucus (which is right next to Armenia) and the "Apiru" had Hurrian names, I posited the POSSIBILITY that Jews may have come with the Hurrian wave. I'm shocked that it's receiving all this antagonism.
P.P.S.--As a Jew, one would think you'd be fascinated by the Tikunani Prism, since people have been saying that "Hapiru" wasn't a reference to a coherent ethnicity, and now the prism seems to contradict that.
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Post by asdf on Nov 23, 2005 22:08:07 GMT -5
How the crap were West Meds Aryans?
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Post by Yankel on Nov 23, 2005 23:04:17 GMT -5
Drooper...
Likewise. I generally enjoy your posts and like your writing style. But Curious6 put forth a valid point, and I think your reaction was on the hostile side. I probably shouldn't have interjected with my unsolicited opinion, though. Ill timing on my part. That said, I think what you're arguing is possible, but unlikely. I respectfully disagree.
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Post by yigal on Nov 24, 2005 0:14:05 GMT -5
sorry buddy fact is genetics dont lie and all jews are related to eachother, and your just upset because u have no identity, what are you Canaanite? Arabian invader? Philistine?(greek!) genetics prooves you are Mongrel Mixes of Syrians,Egyptians,Arabians and Negroids, Ma fish filasteen Sharmutta Arabians like u Shamir they already have some negroid... Arabs have a mix with niggers + turkish. Egyptians were caucasoids in the beginning from weasthern mediterranean (aryans) or easthern mediterranean (cananites) but they mixed with ethiopians nubians and after arabs in the Islamic invasion of the north of Africa and after Otoman Impire. Shamir stop lie people here ...u forever shall be an arab, stop proving here u are caucasian pure !! hehe #1 im not arab #2 if you are "white brazilian" ure portuguese which means you have more black than the average lebanese christian arab
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Post by Pepe friend of obelix on Nov 24, 2005 0:15:50 GMT -5
Arabians like u Shamir they already have some negroid... Arabs have a mix with niggers + turkish. Egyptians were caucasoids in the beginning from weasthern mediterranean (aryans) or easthern mediterranean (cananites) but they mixed with ethiopians nubians and after arabs in the Islamic invasion of the north of Africa and after Otoman Impire. Shamir stop lie people here ...u forever shall be an arab, stop proving here u are caucasian pure !! hehe #1 im not arab #2 if you are "white brazilian" ure portuguese which means you have more black than the average lebanese christian arab You have more native blood than any jewish person and iberian.Of course you like to deny this fact even after your dna test. Here is another thing Portuguese/iberians are typically Med (Not wasp looking) But wasps with 13% still look dodona.proboards35.com/index.cgi?board=raceclass&action=display&thread=1121209617&page=1And your individual Iberian (in this case Portuguese) is not 13% anything.
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Post by yigal on Nov 24, 2005 0:24:44 GMT -5
#1 im not arab #2 if you are "white brazilian" ure portuguese which means you have more black than the average lebanese christian arab You have more native blood than any jewish person and iberian.Of course you like to deny this fact even after your dna test. Here is another thing Portuguese/iberians are typically Med (Not wasp looking) But wasps with 13% still look dodona.proboards35.com/index.cgi?board=raceclass&action=display&thread=1121209617&page=1And your individual Iberian (in this case Portuguese) is not 13% anything. LOL dude that test thread was a joke did u see the whole thread? even droop thought i was nuts, ive been classified as berid, a very iberian type, ure the one that used to tell me to drop the "jew act" well now im proud to be Ethnic Galician/Asturian but still proud of my religion judaism, which i love above all else
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Post by Pepe friend of obelix on Nov 24, 2005 0:31:54 GMT -5
LOL dude that test thread was a joke did u see the whole thread? even droop thought i was nuts, ive been classified as berid, a very iberian type, ure the one that used to tell me to drop the "jew act" well now im proud to be Ethnic Galician/Asturian but still proud of my religion judaism, which i love above all else You aint Galician you aint Asturian you aint Jewish. You be enigma(oid) btw now you telling your dna test was a joke? dude you change your story so often that its hard not to take you seriously.also you told me on aim long time ago
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Post by Springa on Nov 24, 2005 10:09:46 GMT -5
Sorry, you're wrong on both accounts there. First of all there's no necessary corelation between being "white Brazilian" and being Portuguese. Not more than a "white American" is English as opposed to dozens of other possibilities. White Brazilians can be Portuguese, Italian, Spanish, German, Polish, French, British, Lebanese, Syrian, Greek, Russian, Croatian and most likely a mix of 2 or more of the above. Second, Portuguese people are not typically "part black" outside the fantasy world of nordicists and black nationalists. I was under the impression that this theory had already been debunked for good, but I guess I was wrong. Of course some Portuguese are mulattos, just like some French are half Algerian and some Brits are half west Indian. But that whole thing about Portuguese society just swallowing hundreds of thousands of slaves is ridiculous. #2 if you are "white brazilian" ure portuguese which means you have more black than the average lebanese christian arab
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Post by asdf on Nov 24, 2005 10:34:54 GMT -5
His numbers are probably right though. Not that they're signifigant.
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Post by Springa on Nov 24, 2005 11:04:41 GMT -5
Which numbers? His numbers are probably right though. Not that they're signifigant.
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Post by asdf on Nov 24, 2005 16:01:56 GMT -5
Yigal's numbers on black genetic markers. I believe it's 02,5 in Portugal (that and highest in Europe said Michael Antunes). Not having a slave trade history and having comparitively less Arabian admixture than the Muslim half of the state, the Lebanese Christians would have rather little admixture.
In both cases it might be less than the 2,5 anyway, even though the markers are in that porportion for Portugual.
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Post by tonynatuzzi on Nov 24, 2005 16:14:50 GMT -5
Springa I know that alot of White Brazilians have other ancestires besides Portuguese like Italian,Polish,Spanish,German,Jewish,Lebanese,French, Syrian,British like the ones who migrated to Americana,etc but I have never heard of Brazil receiving any Greek and Croatian immigrants.
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Post by Crimson Guard on Nov 24, 2005 16:22:06 GMT -5
<In both cases it might be less than the 2,5 anyway, even though the markers are in that porportion>>
I dislike the Portugese getting hit on this regard,as the White Britons have 1% negroid marker,Belgiums and Dutch may have simliar numbers.Bottom line is 1-4% are not huge or enough to infleunce a thing.
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