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Post by annienormanna on Jan 22, 2006 22:16:01 GMT -5
Excellent survey Like Murphee said, it's not around anymore. It's all received culture, not an ethnic one. Much of New York and New England is bi or multi-ethnic European. Like me
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Post by Planet Asia on Jan 22, 2006 22:39:14 GMT -5
I said the women were igly because they are, not because of race, there are some very pretty non-black women out there, but those two that Trog posted I find them unattractive. See you dodonites are too preoccupied with race.
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Post by Jack Reed on Jan 22, 2006 22:43:38 GMT -5
Could you imagine these women as "WASPs"? I could. They're really English, right? I'm guessing that this is one of those things where you post photos of dark British and dark Irish people to make a point about stereotypes. ;-) I'd like to see your photo one day (I bet you look good).
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Post by annienormanna on Jan 22, 2006 22:45:38 GMT -5
I said the women were igly because they are, not because of race, there are some very pretty non-black women out there, but those two that Trog posted I find them unattractive. See you dodonites are too preoccupied with race. Who friggin cares what you're into, ae govan!
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Post by murphee on Jan 23, 2006 0:49:28 GMT -5
It was the Seventies when I was young and living on the East Coast, and I remember quite a few Irish and Italian Americans who were in the upper classes, also.
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Post by Jack Reed on Jan 23, 2006 1:22:09 GMT -5
^Yes, Italian-Americans and other ethnic whites have made significant inroads into the upper echelons of American society, but if you look at Ivy League universities, most white students are WASPs and Jewish-Americans. White Catholics are still largely left out. In fact, I believe that Italian-Americans are the most underrepresented ethnic group in the Ivy League. Samuel Alito and Antonin Scalia are rather exceptional in this regard. Nonsense,your falling into the old bullshit,deceit and lies of old turn of the 20th century America and internet junkies spam about. Italians where the earliest explorers,pioneers,and statesmen and soldiers in the Americas. That includes the American Revolution and signing of the Declaration of Independence. Italians have more of a right to be then half the so-called WASP's. Enlighten us. Who were the Italian Americans who signed the Declaration of Independence? What major Revolutionary War soldiers were of Italian descent? Your last statement was bogus as well.
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Post by buddy on Jan 23, 2006 1:25:37 GMT -5
^Where I grew up outside of Pittsburgh, it was overwhelmingly Euro-American, but a certain degree of social stratification existed along ethnic/religious lines. I didn't really notice it then, but now that I look back, it was/is noticeable at my high school. For example, the wealthiest students tended to come from WASP or Jewish backgrounds, though some were Irish-American, Italian-American, etc. However, Catholic "ethnics" were more visible among the middle to lower-middle classes, though again with exceptions.
Most people at my high school who came from a minority background were of East Asian or East Indian descent, and they were also generally middle to upper class.
In all honesty, there was also a certain degree of tension between the different classes. The lower-class kids disliked the upper class kids and vice versa. My friends and I, who were mostly middle class and of various ethnicities, often felt like we were somewhat stuck in the middle.
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Post by Jack Reed on Jan 23, 2006 1:32:12 GMT -5
I said the women were igly because they are, not because of race, there are some very pretty non-black women out there, but those two that Trog posted I find them unattractive. See you dodonites are too preoccupied with race. They are far from ugly (or igly). You would cream your pants if the first woman was biracial. Your last statement wins the award for the most ironic statement on Dodona this year. Did you really mean to type that?
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Post by Jack Reed on Jan 23, 2006 1:41:50 GMT -5
^Where I grew up outside of Pittsburgh, it was overwhelmingly Euro-American, but a certain degree of social stratification existed along ethnic/religious lines. I didn't really notice it then, but now that I look back, it was/is noticeable at my high school. For example, the wealthiest students tended to come from WASP or Jewish backgrounds, though some were Irish-American, Italian-American, etc. However, Catholic "ethnics" were more visible among the middle to lower-middle classes, though again with exceptions. Most people at my high school who came from a minority background were of East Asian or East Indian descent, and they were also generally middle to upper class. In all honesty, there was also a certain degree of tension between the different classes. The lower-class kids disliked the upper class kids and vice versa. My friends and I, who were mostly middle class and of various ethnicities, often felt like we were somewhat stuck in the middle. I read that Italian Americans are one of the most successful groups in the country. According to the article, the average Italian American is more educated and wealthier than the average English Americans. That's not to say that this is the case in every place. There's no doubt that the Italians helped to make the country a better place in which to live.
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Post by buddy on Jan 23, 2006 1:47:12 GMT -5
Nonsense,your falling into the old bullshit,deceit and lies of old turn of the 20th century America and internet junkies spam about. Italians where the earliest explorers,pioneers,and statesmen and soldiers in the Americas. That includes the American Revolution and signing of the Declaration of Independence. Italians have more of a right to be then half the so-called WASP's. Enlighten us. Who were the Italian Americans who signed the Declaration of Independence? What major Revolutionary War soldiers were of Italian descent? Your last statement was bogus as well. Crimson, while he means well most of the time, is so wrapped up with all things Italian that he thinks only Italians were responsible for the great contributions to humanity. While I'm also Italian-American and am quite proud of my heritage, I don't let it cloud my judgment and I also acknowledge the noteworthy contributions of other cultures/civilizations. Every ethnic group has contributed something noteworthy to humankind. @jack: In regard to Italian-Americans in the Revolution and colonial America, I do recall reading that a certain number did serve in the miltias, though I must admit that I don't have a source. @crimson: Please don't take this as an attack on you. You're well-informed on many subjects, it's just that I think that sometimes you tend to go a little overboard.
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Post by human2 on Jan 23, 2006 1:47:51 GMT -5
^Where I grew up outside of Pittsburgh, it was overwhelmingly Euro-American, but a certain degree of social stratification existed along ethnic/religious lines. I didn't really notice it then, but now that I look back, it was/is noticeable at my high school. For example, the wealthiest students tended to come from WASP or Jewish backgrounds, though some were Irish-American, Italian-American, etc. However, Catholic "ethnics" were more visible among the middle to lower-middle classes, though again with exceptions. Most people at my high school who came from a minority background were of East Asian or East Indian descent, and they were also generally middle to upper class. In all honesty, there was also a certain degree of tension between the different classes. The lower-class kids disliked the upper class kids and vice versa. My friends and I, who were mostly middle class and of various ethnicities, often felt like we were somewhat stuck in the middle. I read that Italian Americans are one of the most successful groups in the country. According to the article, the average Italian American is more educated and wealthier than the average English Americans. That's not to say that this is the case in every place. There's no doubt that the Italians helped to make the country a better place in which to live. It depends on who you compare them to.. There are a lot of English-descended people who live in boondocked areas, Arkansas.. New Hampshire.. and they are just simple "country" people.. Then you have the WASP elite in more urban areas.. who are arguably the most powerful and wealthy group in America.. it's just a whole different world from the rest of Americana.. something that most Americans don't experience ever.
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Post by buddy on Jan 23, 2006 1:54:02 GMT -5
^Where I grew up outside of Pittsburgh, it was overwhelmingly Euro-American, but a certain degree of social stratification existed along ethnic/religious lines. I didn't really notice it then, but now that I look back, it was/is noticeable at my high school. For example, the wealthiest students tended to come from WASP or Jewish backgrounds, though some were Irish-American, Italian-American, etc. However, Catholic "ethnics" were more visible among the middle to lower-middle classes, though again with exceptions. Most people at my high school who came from a minority background were of East Asian or East Indian descent, and they were also generally middle to upper class. In all honesty, there was also a certain degree of tension between the different classes. The lower-class kids disliked the upper class kids and vice versa. My friends and I, who were mostly middle class and of various ethnicities, often felt like we were somewhat stuck in the middle. I read that Italian Americans are one of the most successful groups in the country. According to the article, the average Italian American is more educated and wealthier than the average English Americans. That's not to say that this is the case in every place. There's no doubt that the Italians helped to make the country a better place in which to live. Yeah Jack, you're right. Italian-Americans and Irish-Americans are both two very successful groups on average. I believe that two-thirds of Italian-Americans hold white-collar jobs, though where I went to high school, there was plenty of "old money" if you know what I mean. Even in my high school, Catholics tended to be middle class (myself included), though it was true that in the case of my area, the lower-middle class had more students from these groups than from either the WASPs or Jewish-Americans. While this is so, most people were also multiethnic Euro-Americans, though they tended to marry within their religious group (Italian-Irish-Polish w/ Catholics for example).
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Post by nockwasright on Jan 23, 2006 2:20:14 GMT -5
^Yes, Italian-Americans and other ethnic whites have made significant inroads into the upper echelons of American society, but if you look at Ivy League universities, most white students are WASPs and Jewish-Americans. White Catholics are still largely left out. In fact, I believe that Italian-Americans are the most underrepresented ethnic group in the Ivy League. Samuel Alito and Antonin Scalia are rather exceptional in this regard. In Ethnic America (that is quite old now btw) Sowell observes, with data, that Italian American, although fairly successful on an income-lifestyle point of view, lag considerably behind the other European groups (let alone asian) in education. This, in his interpretation follows from the cultural pattern of southern italians, whose main values were (are) strong family, readiness to take humble works, common sense and craftiness in hand work (e.g. as masons). High culture never was a value for them. Being a Southern Italian myself I find this analysys very bright. Italians are not a population of intellectuals. Still we have a very low record in Europe in any cultural parameter, nothing to be compared to German or English speaking people and, factored the difference in income, also with Slav speaking people.
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Post by wendland on Jan 23, 2006 2:41:36 GMT -5
WASP with all its cultural connotations is a very East Coast concept, and not really relevant to the rest of the US. Out West, or in the South, the majority of white protestants, well a lot of them, are middle class, or lower class, including "trailer park trash" and rednecks. They don't look or act so polished, poised, controlled, and repressed as the stereotypical WASP. They are a beer guzzling, hard drinking, cursing, poker-playing, speaking-in-tongues, tobacco chewing, rodeo visiting, Nascar interested, wrestling watching lot! A lot if not most of those people probably have never even heard the term "WASP"--it's a term kept alive by East Coast types in the media, etc... I don't want to sound like a Western "Anti East Coast Ranter", I happen to like the Northeast and even lived there once (where I heard the term WASP for the first time, and was baffled by it). By the way, Italy has had a good share of writers/thinkers: Calvino, Moravia come to mind.
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Post by human2 on Jan 23, 2006 3:38:41 GMT -5
Yeah the term WASP refers to an elite who happens to be Anglo-Saxon and Protestant. They reside in the NE. Went to boarding school. Go on the Harvard. Have their futures planned out by their parents before they were born. Knows what the 4 different spoons on a table are used for. Don't need interviews to get a job because the dad knows someone who knows the CEO. All basically good-looking but pale (which is more than you can say for the average English-descended or American in general). George Bush Jr. is WASP.. Typical WASP party with an exotic mullata token female: The power and money of WASPs not even the Jews can match.. though the two groups are often powerful allies in contemporary Neo-Conservative America. The Jews just don't get invited to the WASP parties:
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