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Post by pavel2 on Jan 22, 2006 14:32:10 GMT -5
White Anglo Saxon Protestant
at one time it was very exclusive and the dominant ruling class of America, it may yet still be, I don't know.
I notice now when I think of WASPS, 3 people/families come to mind. The Kennedy's, Linda McCartney, Gwyneth Paltrow. Well guess what, 2 of them are jews and the other family is catholic, so they can't really be wasps can they, I don't think other wasps would include them either.
it seems to me that pure WASPS are impossible to find these days. A seemingly waspish family may in fact be Irish/Polish in origin, or Polish/Russian/German...whatever mixes may exist in America, though outwardly waspish in appearance and activity. Does that make them a wasp or do they have to be anglo saxon.
My question is really...what as a WASP in 2006? Do they still exist, have they ever existed in the purest form? Can somebody be a Polish Catholic/Russian/whatever, with a family that's been in America for several generations be assimilated as a wasp even with no English background....just based on the fact that they're white, they have a house in nantucket, and they ride horses?
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Post by annienormanna on Jan 22, 2006 14:39:11 GMT -5
White Anglo Saxon Protestant at one time it was very exclusive and the dominant ruling class of America, it may yet still be, I don't know. I notice now when I think of WASPS, 3 people/families come to mind. The Kennedy's, Linda McCartney, Gwyneth Paltrow. Well guess what, 2 of them are jews and the other family is catholic, so they can't really be wasps can they, I don't think other wasps would include them either. it seems to me that pure WASPS are impossible to find these days. A seemingly waspish family may in fact be Irish/Polish in origin, or Polish/Russian/German...whatever mixes may exist in America, though outwardly waspish in appearance and activity. Does that make them a wasp or do they have to be anglo saxon. My question is really...what as a WASP in 2006? Do they still exist, have they ever existed in the purest form? You wanna know American ethnicities and breakdowns? WASPS in the original thirteen states and their descendants? You can check out: www.dar.org/Otherwise, the rest are imitators. Received Elite Americans. Judging by Jeb Bush's marriage, I'd say the term's shifting in meaning.
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Post by buddy on Jan 22, 2006 14:43:03 GMT -5
Good question Pavel. As I've generally understood the term WASP, it refers nowadays to Euro-American Protestants in general, most of whom are of northwestern European origin. It used to include only people of English origin (hence Anglo-Saxon), though it now includes virtually all Americans of British (incl. Scottish, Welsh, and Scotch-Irish), German, Dutch, Scandinavian, and French Huguenot ancestry. For me, the Kennedy family for example is non-WASP because they are Irish Catholics, despite their status.
You are right that pure old-fashioned WASPs are not very common anymore, but if one includes all European-American Protestants within this group (most of whom are of NW European origin anyway), those who may be called WASPs are still the dominant type of white American.
Catholic and Jewish Euro-Americans (such as myself) are referred to as "ethnic whites." Those of us who are descended from Italians, Irish Catholics, Slavs, Jews, etc. are not traditional WASPs, though I suppose if someone from one of these groups marries into a Protestant family and converts, that person could also assume a WASP identity.
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Post by asdf on Jan 22, 2006 14:52:39 GMT -5
JFK was a big deal for being our first and only Catholic president - it wasn't even clear if being a Catholic was not going to hurt his getting elected. He definitely was not a WASP 40 years ago.
And Irish Catholics aren't seen as "ethnics".
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Post by buddy on Jan 22, 2006 14:59:54 GMT -5
^Really, that's news to me. So it's basically just southern and eastern Europeans who are viewed as "ethnics?"
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Post by annienormanna on Jan 22, 2006 15:03:43 GMT -5
Catholic and Jewish Euro-Americans (such as myself) are referred to as "ethnic whites." Those of us who are descended from Italians, Irish Catholics, Slavs, Jews, etc. are not traditional WASPs, though I suppose if someone from one of these groups marries into a Protestant family and converts, that person could also assume a WASP identity. Funny. John Kerry was excluded as being "WASP" by calling him "French" in the 2004 Presidenttial campaign. While he is a Catholic and has Jewish grandparents, he's also by ancestry also Forbes. There is barely any pretense between Catholic and Protestant elites that I can sense, until it comes down to ethnic politcs in America. As an example, where it becomes Irish is where full assimilation into the WASP elite hasn't taken place. The Kennedys maintain a strong identity with their Irish roots, but for all other intents and purposes the are as elite as one could get. By previous criteria is Orrin Hatch a WASP? No. Though his family settled America during Colonial American times. Neither would the Ruthenian and Eastern Germans of North Dakota. Or the Scandinavians of Minnesota. or Eddie Vedder. Paltrow? She plays one in the movies.
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Post by pavel2 on Jan 22, 2006 15:06:08 GMT -5
Irish catholic aren't seen as ethnic whites anymore, though I believe they were at one time. Just like there will be a time in the future (possibly within the next 2-3 generations) when eastern euros and southern euros are no longer seen as white ethnics as well.
kennedy's were also not political wasps, I believe most are conservative?
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Post by annienormanna on Jan 22, 2006 15:11:11 GMT -5
JFK was a big deal for being our first and only Catholic president - it wasn't even clear if being a Catholic was not going to hurt his getting elected. He definitely was not a WASP 40 years ago. And Irish Catholics aren't seen as "ethnics". No. Many just don't think they are. Depends how "lace curtain" you are. In the meantime it's obvious they are from my standpoint.
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Post by Trog on Jan 22, 2006 15:28:00 GMT -5
Could you imagine these women as "WASPs"?
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Post by annienormanna on Jan 22, 2006 15:38:44 GMT -5
Could you imagine these women as "WASPs"? No! Ain't it great?
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Post by annienormanna on Jan 22, 2006 15:42:43 GMT -5
Irish catholic aren't seen as ethnic whites anymore, though I believe they were at one time. Just like there will be a time in the future (possibly within the next 2-3 generations) when eastern euros and southern euros are no longer seen as white ethnics as well. kennedy's were also not political wasps, I believe most are conservative? No. The political situation in the United States involves Catholic and Protestant Elites congregated around the Republican party. I'ts easy to spot Irish live and in person, dude. It's not like a consensus thing. I sense you're not American.
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Post by annienormanna on Jan 22, 2006 15:55:41 GMT -5
Could you imagine these women as "WASPs"? Can you imagine these women as WASPS?
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Post by Planet Asia on Jan 22, 2006 16:01:07 GMT -5
Could you imagine these women as "WASPs"? Yes, but they're ugly.
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tikitorch
Junior Member
The Mediterranean has the color of mackerel, changeable I mean. You don't always know if it is green
Posts: 53
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Post by tikitorch on Jan 22, 2006 16:06:47 GMT -5
Not ugly, top one nice and healthy....mmmm yeah
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Post by Planet Asia on Jan 22, 2006 16:11:49 GMT -5
Not ugly, top one nice and healthy....mmmm yeah Sorry, but those two are ugly . I just can't see whats so pretty about them.
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