|
Post by gambler32 on Jun 3, 2005 13:05:14 GMT -5
www.embitalia.org.mx/Embitaly/html/storia18.htmlPrimera: el 22 de mayo y el 15 de junio de 1251 e rey de castilla Fernando III "el Santo" concedió los mismos privilegios especiales, que ya concediera a Toledo, a la ciudad de Génova, de comerciar con Sevilla, ciudad reconquistada a los Moros en 1248, privilegios reconfirmados por los sucesivos reyes castellanos. Esto explica el considerable numero de ciudadanos genoveses presentes en Cadiz, Malaga y especialmente en Sevilla, centro de todas las relaciones entre el Viejo y el Nuevo Mundo, donde se dedicaron a toda clase de actividades comerciales, dando vita a una floreciente y rica colonia de banqueros, armadores, comerciantes, pilotos; no faltaron soldados de aventura dispuestos a hacerse a la mar con quien les proporcionase buenas ofertas para ir al Nuevo Mundo. Esto explica la presencia de genoveses en las bases españolas del Caribe, y el porqué la mayoría de los italianos que acompañaron a los españoles a las conquistas de los Imperios de América fueron genoveses.
|
|
|
Post by gambler32 on Jun 3, 2005 14:41:35 GMT -5
infact when writing back to italy vatican he wrote in SPANISH lol Well at the time the POPE WAS SPANISH im sure there was alot of Spanish spoken and influences at that time. www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/history/borgias/2.html?sect=6ALEXANDER VI: (1431 - 1503, Pope from 1492 - 1503) Alexander is the most notorious pope in all of history. He conducted a pontificate of nepotism, greed, ruthlessness, murder, and, as McBrien has described it, "unbridled sensuality." He became the leading figure in the saga of the Borgia family, both as a perpetuator of evil and a facilitator of the activities of the two most famous of his children, Cesare and Lucrezia. The second and last of the Spanish popes literally bought his pontificate with bribes. Such a purchased election is called "simoniacal," and was easily accomplished with the greed of seventeen of the twenty-two cardinals voting for the new pope.
|
|
XpoFERENS
New Member
Columbus de Terra Rubra
Posts: 10
|
Post by XpoFERENS on Jun 3, 2005 15:35:27 GMT -5
Chios at the time was a colony of Genoa(for the past 150 years) and he "was of the Genoese nation". From that we can conlude that he could most certainly have been a Chian.
Those are uninformed statements. See here:
----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Byzantine connection would explain his knowledge of Latin and Greek, and would answer the question as to why he kept his log in these two languages instead of the Italian of Genoa. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Columbus made markings of Greek words on the margins of his favorite book, Imago Mundi, by Cardinal Pierre d'Ailly. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Columbus kept "a secret accurate reckoning" and two logs. The author shows that his "secret reckoning" was in Greek leagues, whereas his "official log" was in Roman leagues. -----------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
|
Post by Artemidoros on Jun 3, 2005 16:11:07 GMT -5
Chios at the time was a colony of Genoa(for the past 150 years) and he "was of the Genoese nation". From that we can conlude that he could most certainly have been a Chian. In that particular phrase he said "I was born in Genoa". I don't know what he meant, the Republic or the city, but there was no C. Colombo found in the archives of the city of Genoa from that period. The Colombo most historians equate with Columbus was not born in the city, although he lived there until the age of 21 at least (a major problem in reconciling records and facts).
|
|
|
Post by Artemidoros on Jun 3, 2005 16:15:34 GMT -5
infact when writing back to italy vatican he wrote in SPANISH lol Well at the time the POPE WAS SPANISH im sure there was alot of Spanish spoken and influences at that time. www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/history/borgias/2.html?sect=6ALEXANDER VI: (1431 - 1503, Pope from 1492 - 1503) Alexander is the most notorious pope in all of history. He conducted a pontificate of nepotism, greed, ruthlessness, murder, and, as McBrien has described it, "unbridled sensuality." He became the leading figure in the saga of the Borgia family, both as a perpetuator of evil and a facilitator of the activities of the two most famous of his children, Cesare and Lucrezia. The second and last of the Spanish popes literally bought his pontificate with bribes. Such a purchased election is called "simoniacal," and was easily accomplished with the greed of seventeen of the twenty-two cardinals voting for the new pope. Columbus actually wrote to his Genoese bankers repeatedly, always in Spanish. The funny thing is they wrote to him in Italian.
|
|
XpoFERENS
New Member
Columbus de Terra Rubra
Posts: 10
|
Post by XpoFERENS on Jun 3, 2005 16:17:21 GMT -5
The phrase I quoted-"was of the Genoese nation", is from Historia De Las Indies, by Bishop de las Casas(who had sailed with Columbus).
|
|
|
Post by Artemidoros on Jun 3, 2005 16:21:12 GMT -5
The phrase I quoted- "was of the Genoese nation", is from Historia De Las Indies, by Bishop de las Casas(who had sailed with Columbus). I am not disputing that. It is just open to different interpretations.
|
|
|
Post by lurker4now on Jun 3, 2005 16:30:02 GMT -5
www.embitalia.org.mx/Embitaly/html/storia18.htmlPrimera: el 22 de mayo y el 15 de junio de 1251 e rey de castilla Fernando III "el Santo" concedió los mismos privilegios especiales, que ya concediera a Toledo, a la ciudad de Génova, de comerciar con Sevilla, ciudad reconquistada a los Moros en 1248, privilegios reconfirmados por los sucesivos reyes castellanos. Esto explica el considerable numero de ciudadanos genoveses presentes en Cadiz, Malaga y especialmente en Sevilla, centro de todas las relaciones entre el Viejo y el Nuevo Mundo, donde se dedicaron a toda clase de actividades comerciales, dando vita a una floreciente y rica colonia de banqueros, armadores, comerciantes, pilotos; no faltaron soldados de aventura dispuestos a hacerse a la mar con quien les proporcionase buenas ofertas para ir al Nuevo Mundo. Esto explica la presencia de genoveses en las bases españolas del Caribe, y el porqué la mayoría de los italianos que acompañaron a los españoles a las conquistas de los Imperios de América fueron genoveses. This proves what? This does not tie in with the legend of how Colom arrived in Portugal which the Italians use.
|
|
|
Post by lurker4now on Jun 3, 2005 16:37:55 GMT -5
infact when writing back to italy vatican he wrote in SPANISH lol Well at the time the POPE WAS SPANISH im sure there was alot of Spanish spoken and influences at that time. www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/history/borgias/2.html?sect=6ALEXANDER VI: (1431 - 1503, Pope from 1492 - 1503) Alexander is the most notorious pope in all of history. He conducted a pontificate of nepotism, greed, ruthlessness, murder, and, as McBrien has described it, "unbridled sensuality." He became the leading figure in the saga of the Borgia family, both as a perpetuator of evil and a facilitator of the activities of the two most famous of his children, Cesare and Lucrezia. The second and last of the Spanish popes literally bought his pontificate with bribes. Such a purchased election is called "simoniacal," and was easily accomplished with the greed of seventeen of the twenty-two cardinals voting for the new pope. When Colom wrote to his bother and banks in Genoa he wrote in "Spanish" not Italian. All early Papal Bulls refer to him as "Cristofõm Colon" and also Columbus' son, Hernando, amassed lots of books, from his father, mostly, and there was a catalog of them. One of the items listed (the item itself is missing) is the Letter from the Indies — written in Catalan.
|
|
|
Post by lurker4now on Jun 3, 2005 16:39:25 GMT -5
Well at the time the POPE WAS SPANISH im sure there was alot of Spanish spoken and influences at that time. www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/history/borgias/2.html?sect=6ALEXANDER VI: (1431 - 1503, Pope from 1492 - 1503) Alexander is the most notorious pope in all of history. He conducted a pontificate of nepotism, greed, ruthlessness, murder, and, as McBrien has described it, "unbridled sensuality." He became the leading figure in the saga of the Borgia family, both as a perpetuator of evil and a facilitator of the activities of the two most famous of his children, Cesare and Lucrezia. The second and last of the Spanish popes literally bought his pontificate with bribes. Such a purchased election is called "simoniacal," and was easily accomplished with the greed of seventeen of the twenty-two cardinals voting for the new pope. Columbus actually wrote to his Genoese bankers repeatedly, always in Spanish. The funny thing is they wrote to him in Italian. really? prove it
|
|
|
Post by lurker4now on Jun 3, 2005 17:42:29 GMT -5
If he did not speak italian and did not read italian it would have been noted.same goes for Greek.produce anything that states he spoke greek and wrote anything in greek besides punctuation marks. He didnt write he used punctuation marks and xpo is Christ NOT where he is from in Greece No,anyone who is a religious person knows Christ is Greek name, Jesus is a Greek name so what? Fact is Colom was a devout Catholic not Greek Orthodox. Christ or Messiah you said that "They had to use Arabic translations of Greek texts" which is a lie.thats why i made that comment. The new testament of Iberia WAS NOT OF Arabic translation of Greek text lol again he wrote NOTHING in greek. We are Colom used them and also used monogram for Christ. are you from catalunya and related to the Coloms? No but surnames such as Colom is Catalan www.blasonari.net/ click on apellidos then click on "colom" You didnt say it But your source for Colom being Greek does! The Greek theory say's:
|
|
|
Post by gambler32 on Jun 3, 2005 17:48:03 GMT -5
its more likely that Christobal Colon was from Genoa. I don't see how he could of been from Catalunia or Portugal even less from Greece.The Genovese always had some presence in Castille from the 1250's on.
|
|
|
Post by gambler32 on Jun 3, 2005 17:53:22 GMT -5
[quote author=artemidoros Columbus actually wrote to his Genoese bankers repeatedly, always in Spanish. The funny thing is they wrote to him in Italian.[/quote] That doesn't make sense. Maybe the bankers were billingual and knew Espanol. Their was alot of Genovese bankers who spent some time in Castille. It says here many Genovese bankers were in Castille. www.embitalia.org.mx/Embitaly/html/storia18.htmlPrimera: el 22 de mayo y el 15 de junio de 1251 e rey de castilla Fernando III "el Santo" concedió los mismos privilegios especiales, que ya concediera a Toledo, a la ciudad de Génova, de comerciar con Sevilla, ciudad reconquistada a los Moros en 1248, privilegios reconfirmados por los sucesivos reyes castellanos. Esto explica el considerable numero de ciudadanos genoveses presentes en Cadiz, Malaga y especialmente en Sevilla, centro de todas las relaciones entre el Viejo y el Nuevo Mundo, donde se dedicaron a toda clase de actividades comerciales, dando vita a una floreciente y rica colonia de banqueros, armadores, comerciantes, pilotos; no faltaron soldados de aventura dispuestos a hacerse a la mar con quien les proporcionase buenas ofertas para ir al Nuevo Mundo. Esto explica la presencia de genoveses en las bases españolas del Caribe, y el porqué la mayoría de los italianos que acompañaron a los españoles a las conquistas de los Imperios de América fueron genoveses.
|
|
|
Post by lurker4now on Jun 3, 2005 18:02:37 GMT -5
its more likely that Christobal Colon was from Genoa. I don't see how he could of been from Catalunia or Portugal even less from Greece.The Genovese always had some presence in Castille from the 1250's on. and none of those genovese forgot how to speak italian write italian. read about how they cliam colom entered iberia
|
|
|
Post by lurker4now on Jun 3, 2005 18:07:29 GMT -5
the link you offer is not a good source.its vague.
btw name me one italian who piloted Spanish ships,name me one bank in Spain of italian origin
|
|