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Post by lurker4now on May 30, 2005 16:54:01 GMT -5
Numerous and different conclusions can be draw from his sigla to fit different theories, but what we know for sure is that it is a Greco-latin combination. It is worth noting that Christopher Columbus called himself, and signed documents, "Columbus de Terra Rubra" (Columbus of the Red Earth), because of the red earth of southern Chios where the mastic tree grows. Also notable is that Chios is the only place with red earth, that as far as my knowledge, is also a place that claims to be the home of Columbus. www.grecoreport.com/images/Columbus_signature.jpg[/img][/quote] yes the refernce to Terra Rubra =TARROJA DE SEGARRA of cataluyan and it was not Columbus who called himself this! in fact it was another iberian who referes to another iberian called "Colom" who fought along side him who came from Tarroja!(whether it is the same ColoMbus or not is speculation but difinitly not greek. the Greco-latin combination of writing was what english is today commen!
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Post by lurker4now on May 30, 2005 16:57:28 GMT -5
btw even the coat of arms of Colombus bares the sheild of Tarroja lol
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Post by lurker4now on May 30, 2005 17:07:26 GMT -5
Tarroja coat of arms COLOMbus coat of arms right there at the bottom for all to see ;D
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XpoFERENS
New Member
Columbus de Terra Rubra
Posts: 10
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Post by XpoFERENS on May 30, 2005 17:47:15 GMT -5
I cannot find any direct connections with Genoa and any of the Terra Rossas of Itlay. I also have not been able to find any references to a Terra Rossa in regards to any theory of the origins of Columbus. I think his strong ties to Chios are enough to rule out coincidence. If you know of any more information concerning this particular point, please bring it to my attension. I am only presenting an arguement, not banishing illiteracy. Interesting, perhaps you can go more into depth here and maybe even give a few references. Perhaps it was of minor consequence considering his many affiliations with Spain and the fact that I could not find any reference to it here: www.heraldica.org/topics/columbus.htmwww.grecoreport.com/images/Columbus_signature.jpg[/img]
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Post by lurker4now on May 30, 2005 17:55:02 GMT -5
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Post by lurker4now on May 30, 2005 18:00:55 GMT -5
btw sorry XpoFERENS i thought you might of been a troll called spiro! but you are cool! hey is there any familys in greece who claim to be descendent of columbus?
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XpoFERENS
New Member
Columbus de Terra Rubra
Posts: 10
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Post by XpoFERENS on May 30, 2005 18:36:00 GMT -5
I recommend you take the time and read this review: www.grecoreport.com/christopher_columbus.htmIn it there reads: ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Over the doors of some homes in places like Pyrghi and Cimbouri, one can still see the name KOLOMVOS inscribed. A picture of a priest of Pyrghi is shown in the book whose name is "Kolomvos," and who told the author, Ruth Durlacher-Wolper, that his family goes back 600 years on the island, and that the old Greek Byzantine aristocracy had intermarried with the Genoese merchants because "they were bound by the same interests," i.e., the mastic trade. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Please allow me some time to review the information on your link and to write a proper response. www.grecoreport.com/images/Columbus_signature.jpg[/img]
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Post by lurker4now on May 30, 2005 18:39:05 GMT -5
I recommend you take the time and read this review: www.grecoreport.com/christopher_columbus.htmIn it there reads: ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Over the doors of some homes in places like Pyrghi and Cimbouri, one can still see the name KOLOMVOS inscribed. A picture of a priest of Pyrghi is shown in the book whose name is "Kolomvos," and who told the author, Ruth Durlacher-Wolper, that his family goes back 600 years on the island, and that the old Greek Byzantine aristocracy had intermarried with the Genoese merchants because "they were bound by the same interests," i.e., the mastic trade. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Please allow me some time to review the information on your link and to write a proper response. www.grecoreport.com/images/Columbus_signature.jpg[/img] [/quote] ok i will! lots to read so ill answer it in a few days or so..
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Post by Artemidoros on May 31, 2005 18:33:13 GMT -5
"His family tree begins for us with his grandfather, Giovanni Colombo of Terra-Rossa, one of the hamlets in the valley—concerning whom many human facts may be inferred, but only three are certainly known; that he lived, begot children, and died. Lived, first at Terra Rossa, and afterwards upon the sea-shore at Quinto"www.blackmask.com/books54c/cc01v.htm
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Post by Artemidoros on May 31, 2005 18:49:10 GMT -5
Tautamo, I see you are back under a different alias. I had decided not to answer you, not because of your hostile attitude, you can be as hostile as you want. Simply because your comments were not worth it. Some of your questions I have already answered in my posts, some you should not be asking since I never said some of what you attribute to me and some are outright stupid. Like asking me to explain why Fernando Colon went to Genoa and did not find any relatives. How does that prove he was not Greek? Or that it was common in Iberia to have part Greek signatures in the 15th century. They had to use Arabic translations of Greek texts at the time, cause they were ignorant of Greek. How many Greek signatures of Iberians can you provide? Now the reason I decided to reply: I did a quick google search and look what I found www.ngw.nl/int/spa/t/tarroja.htmThe coat of arms of TARROJA DE SEGARRA the lords of the village, which apparently is very small with fewer than 200 people. Were there more than one aristocratic family in a small village? Also Tarroja does not mean Red Land but Red Tower. Has my ignorance of the Catalan language misled me? Or is the heraldic symbol you produced a fabrication? (I do not mean you are the one who fabricated it)
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XpoFERENS
New Member
Columbus de Terra Rubra
Posts: 10
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Post by XpoFERENS on Jun 1, 2005 13:49:44 GMT -5
Artemidoros, thank you for providing more information on the Terra Rossa. The arms of Tarroja that Lurker posted does not seem very authentic(as opposed to the second one posted by Artemidoros). In this arguement perhaps not so much weight sould be based on Columbus's arms. The association with him and many others is evident in the diversity of his arms. His associations where multiple, as can be read from the heraldica site I posted, which did not reference to any Tarroja(in my opinion, rendering it to insignificance). Therefore, if deriving from his arms, he could just as easily have been a Castillian. www.grecoreport.com/images/Columbus_signature.jpg[/img]
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Post by lurker4now on Jun 1, 2005 17:54:42 GMT -5
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Post by lurker4now on Jun 1, 2005 18:02:18 GMT -5
Artemidoros, thank you for providing more information on the Terra Rossa. The arms of Tarroja that Lurker posted does not seem very authentic(as opposed to the second one posted by Artemidoros). In this arguement perhaps not so much weight sould be based on Columbus's arms. The association with him and many others is evident in the diversity of his arms. His associations where multiple, as can be read from the heraldica site I posted, which did not reference to any Tarroja(in my opinion, rendering it to insignificance). Therefore, if deriving from his arms, he could just as easily have been a Castillian. Colom is not a Castillian surname.Many families have the surname Colom and all of them belong to the Catalan language.
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Post by lurker4now on Jun 1, 2005 18:08:14 GMT -5
The Portuguese and Catalan theories are by far the strongest.
The Greek theory of a man in fear his whole life from Turks is not.
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Post by Artemidoros on Jun 3, 2005 10:11:34 GMT -5
A)Colombus never said he was from Genoa In his testament of 1498 he said: "siendo yo nacido en Genova"Whether he was telling the truth or was caught in a lie he could not escape from is a different matter. Says who? Who could he speak to in Greek (except perhaps his brothers) and be understood? Who had knowledge of Greek and could testify as to whether or not he had ever heard him speak Greek? We know he wrote in a non-Latin Alphabet. It could have been Hebrew, Arabic, Cyrillic or Greek. "Xpu" is BS. "Xpoc" is a Byzantine Greek abbreviation for Christ, nothing to do with the Bible. Anyone who had been to a Greek Orthodox church could know it. "Xpo" is a suitable adaptation of "Xpoc" to be used in the name "Christophoros" or "ChristoFERENS". That is what appeared in Columbus' sigla and whoever did it had to have some knowledge of Greek. See above. You are being stupid again. The Bible the Iberians used was Latin. It had been translated from Greek in Roman times. There were no Iberians who had sufficient knowledge of Greek to translate ancient Greek texts. Arabic translations of Greek texts, as well as Arabic texts, were translated from Arabic into Castilian, usually by Jews, and then into Latin by Christians, since Latin was the literary medium of the era. Greek started being taught in Italian universities in the 1st half of the 15th century. It was not taught in Iberia before 1500. Who is talking about punctuation? That Coat of Arms is not from Tarroja. It is actually mine ;D ;D "Origin/Meaning: The red tower is a canting sign, derived from Catalan "torre roja", and it's taken from the arms of the Tarroja (or Torroja) family, lords of the village. "www.ngw.nl/int/spa/t/tarroja.htmColumbus, Colomb, Colon, Coulon, Colombo, Colomo, Colonus are not Catalan. His true surname may not have been any of those anyway. If he did have one ... The Portuguese and Catalan theories are the weakest of all. Columbus was an "extrangero". Everybody knew it. I never said he was afraid of the Turks. He may have been afraid of many, especially the Venetians, but not the Turks. There are 100 reasons why a person may want to hide his true identity. Whoever identifies that reason has identified Columbus.
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