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Post by Archangelos on Feb 29, 2004 19:50:57 GMT -5
I was wondering if anyone has some information on the Origins of the people of Epirus.
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Post by Artemisia on Feb 29, 2004 21:54:05 GMT -5
I was wondering if anyone has some information on the Origins of the people of Epirus. The Epirotes were a NW (Dorian) Greek people. They were sub-divided into 14 subtribes of which the Chaones (north), Mollosi (central), and Thesproti (southwest) were the most powerful. The Epirotes called themselves "Apeirotan" (from the Doric Apeiros meaning "without a path") and worshiped all the Olympian gods and even some Homeric heroes (Achilles and his son Neoptolemos) but above all they worshiped Zeus and Dione, who was Zeus' consort at Dodona. For some Epirote coins, go here: www.snible.org/coins/hn/epirus.htmlFor mythology/history, read Herodotus, Pausanias, Strabo, Claudius Ptolemy, Plutarch (on Pyrrhus), Homer (Odyssey, Iliad), and N.G.L Hammond's book "Epirus". If you can read Greek, you may also wish to read Alekos Papadopoulos' book "Apeiros Chora". Papadopoulos was a former minister of economics and health in Greece and is a personal friend of my father. He hails from Thesprotia.
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Post by Archangelos on Feb 29, 2004 23:24:22 GMT -5
You wouldnt have any information on the origins of Arvanites, Vlachs and Tosk either?
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Post by Artemidoros on Mar 1, 2004 6:56:09 GMT -5
The Tosks, as I am sure you know, are the southern Albanians. The Arvanites are a Greco-Albanian population (Tosk speakers) of central Greece and southern Italy. Their Albanian element comes from mercenaries and settlers that first arrived in the Duchy of Athens in Frankish times. Some clues to their ethnic composition you can read in this work on the "stradioti". unx1.shsu.edu/~his_ncp/Stradioti.htmlThe Vlachs origins are diverse and hotly disputed but they do not seem to have any connection with Romania as many believe (except some in Serbia). In my opinion the Vlachs in Greece, who represent the majority of the linguistic group, are Latinicized people from the central Balkans who moved into mountainous, sparsely populated areas of Greece under pressure from invaders before the 10th century. Some good info on the Vlachs here: web.otenet.gr/vlachs/introduction-uk.htm
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Post by Artemisia on Mar 1, 2004 9:36:10 GMT -5
You wouldnt have any information on the origins of Arvanites, Vlachs and Tosk either? Arvanites are Albanians who settled in Greece mostly after the Ottoman conquest of the Balkans. They came in two waves: first, in the 1400-1600 and then again in the 1800s. Most of their last names seem to indicate that they came from northern Albania, the area of Scodra and nearby. The official language of Albania is the Tosk dialect of the south, the Gheg being the northern dialect. The Arvanites actually speak the Tosk dialect which has many Greek words in it. The Vlachs, as Artemidoros, pointed out, are a subject that has caused much controversy. That they are probably not of Greek origin is certain. Most Latin-speaking Vlachs in Epirus (the area of Metsovo) are probably from Romania and Bulgaria (ancient Thrace.) I believe that the Vlachs are remnants of the Thracians who were Latinized and moved to all the countries of the Balkans. If you look closely at their customs, especially the fact that they used to be mostly shepherds, you can see a connection with the Thracians. Ancient sources do tell us that many Thracians were shepherds; in fact, the word yoghurt is supposed to be a Thracian word and the Vlachs are known for their yoghurt and cheese products. You find Vlachs in all Balkan countries today. A Vlach city in Albania is Koritsa; southern Albania is made up of Muslim Albanians, a large Vlach minority, and a small Greek minority (really about 100,000.) A famous Vlach from Albania is the current president Fatos Nano. In Greece, most Vlachs are situated around Metsovo, parts of Thessaly and Thrace, and some parts of Achaia.
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Post by Archangelos on Mar 1, 2004 9:45:31 GMT -5
Thanks everyone
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Post by labi on Mar 4, 2004 13:27:22 GMT -5
didnt know that thanks. it just strengthen my opinion that they were a continuation of labs. arberesh called albania arberia. labs land is called laberia. and the last of stradioti were albanians from himara area from 1744. and their surnames are similar.
the whole dialect change is the big question.
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Post by Artemisia on Mar 4, 2004 16:09:14 GMT -5
didnt know that thanks. it just strengthen my opinion that they were a continuation of labs. arberesh called albania arberia. labs land is called laberia. and the last of stradioti were albanians from himara area from 1744. and their surnames are similar. the whole dialect change is the big question. Labi, have you ever heard the last names of Arvanites in Greece? Some of them are so ridiculous that I think most Albanians will laugh like mad when they hear them: Karipidis, Hundmadhis, Bythikotsis, Katsibardhis. But hey, they do have meaning in Albanian.....a somewhat funny meaning nonetheless. I don't understand why they continue to keep these weird last names.
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Post by labi on Mar 4, 2004 19:35:19 GMT -5
ahaha good one. maybe because theyre hellenised now and dont know the meaning.
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Ioulianos
Full Member
Anegnon,Egnon,Kategnon
Posts: 199
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Post by Ioulianos on Mar 4, 2004 20:27:55 GMT -5
Labi, have you ever heard the last names of Arvanites in Greece? Some of them are so ridiculous that I think most Albanians will laugh like mad when they hear them: Karipidis, Hundmadhis, Bythikotsis, Katsibardhis. But hey, they do have meaning in Albanian.....a somewhat funny meaning nonetheless. I don't understand why they continue to keep these weird last names. What do these names mean?
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Post by Artemisia on Mar 4, 2004 22:58:38 GMT -5
What do these names mean? Albanian 101: Karipidis (ummm, it means penis-vagina) Hundmadhis = big-nose Katsibardhis= white goat Bythikotsis= red butt Bythas = butt I wonder if these Arvanites know what these names actually mean....especially Karipidis.
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Post by Artemidoros on Mar 5, 2004 15:46:56 GMT -5
From what I know, some stradioti settled in Zakynthos around 1480 or a little later. Also some refugees from Souli came during the Ali Pasha years. I don't know if they settled though. One thing I have read is that kyra Vasiliki, Ali's favourite wife settled in Zakynthos and married a local man. She had a daughter, who maried an English soldier and she became the first Greek woman in Sydney, Australia. Out of the 40 or so villages on the island 2 or 3 seem to have Albanian names. There is a village called Mouzaki and the surname Mouzakis is a common one there. Some associate it with the aristocratic Muzaka clan of Albania. Gjon Muzaka fought with Skenderbey against the Ottomans. Then the feudal lords of Albania at the time were a cosmopolitan lot. Does the word have have a meaning in Albanian? There is also a village called Koukesi and one called Belousi. What do you guys think? Not many Albanian surnames though, apart from Meidanis which is not definitely Albanian (the word meidani appears in many regions of Greece and is Turkish in origin). If it is Albanian it is unlikely it was in use by 1500, so I don't think we can associate it with the stradioti. There are a couple of families I know came from Albania, Kottis and Beleris but only a few generations ago. Other surnames I do not know the etymology of and might in fact be of Albanian origin: Koklas, Plessas (Plesias in its original form according to one account), Pettas. There are also the names Glavas, Vitsos, Sklivas which I think might be Slavic.
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Post by Artemisia on Mar 5, 2004 20:14:21 GMT -5
Mouzekia is a region in Albania. It is a plain. Kuksi is a town in northern Albania while Belushi is a common Albanian last name. Interesting! Cottis is actually a Thracian name. There were several Thracian kings with the name Cotys, e.g, Cotys I of Bosporus. Beyleri is Turkish. I don't think these have any meaning in Albanian. Glava is Slavic. Vitsos sounds like Slavicized Greek. Sklivas may or may not be Slavic. What do our Slavic speakers say about this?
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Post by labi on Mar 6, 2004 13:13:59 GMT -5
not all albanian surnames make sense. many were created so people can escape blood feuds.
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Post by Artemisia on Mar 6, 2004 20:28:06 GMT -5
not all albanian surnames make sense. many were created so people can escape blood feuds. True. How do we know something is Albanian, though? I know several southern Albanians with Greek last names (e.g., Dimarchou) who have no Greek ancestry and in fact hate the Greeks.
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