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Post by galvez on Mar 22, 2004 0:41:17 GMT -5
The founder of Hamas, Sheik Ahmed Yassin, was just killed by the Israeli military. He was a highly revered figure in the Palestinian struggle for independence. Very likely there will be some type of retaliation by Palestinian militants to avenge the assassination of their spiritual leader.
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Post by alex221166 on Mar 22, 2004 8:43:45 GMT -5
The founder of Hamas, Sheik Ahmed Yassin, was just killed by the Israeli military. He was a highly revered figure in the Palestinian struggle for independence. Very likely there will be some type of retaliation by Palestinian militants to avenge the assassination of their spiritual leader. Godwilling, all the suicide bombers will gather in a large square, cry and morn their leader's death in communion, and then blow themselves with great joy and great religious extasy in the middle of the desert as a way to honour his death. Terrorism is not a valid form of warfare. Had the Palestinian leaderships realised that, they would probably have gathered a great deal of international support.
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Post by geirr on Mar 22, 2004 9:26:28 GMT -5
I think we can all agree that the world is better off without this guy but I'm not sure whether Israel's assasination of Hamas militants is decreasing suicide bombers or infact making these brainwashed zealots more militant. You could almost predict that something horrible is about to happen.
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Post by galvez on Mar 22, 2004 19:01:01 GMT -5
Terrorism is not a valid form of warfare. Had the Palestinian leaderships realised that, they would probably have gathered a great deal of international support. Well, it's easy for us to say, but what if your home was bulldozed or your little brother was shot and killed for throwing a rock at a tank?
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Post by alex221166 on Mar 22, 2004 21:39:56 GMT -5
Well, it's easy for us to say, but what if your home was bulldozed or your little brother was shot and killed for throwing a rock at a tank? 1) I live in a building. If anyone wanted to bulldoze my house, they would have to destroy the whole building 2) The Israelis only bulldoze the houses of the terrorists. If any member of my family was a terrorist and was killing inocent civilians, I would gladly pay for the bullet and shake the hands of the soldier that killed him 3) Rocks kill people too. If they weren't throwing rocks, they would not die. I admit that the Israeli military can sometimes be violent towards the Palestinians. Some Palestinians do die, but either as "collateral damage" or as a consequence of the action of individual soldiers. What the Hamas, the Islamic Jihad and all the other loonies do has no comparison whatsoever. Like I said: I have ZERO tolerance for terrorism. Whatever sympathy I once had for the Palestinians, is burried in the blood their terrorism spilled. Let me add that I am not Jewish and I don't have any Jewish ancestors that I know of. PS: you do know that Arafat has something close to 1 billion dollars stashed away... He knows that he will only be in command while there is a "war" going on. If the Palestinians lived better, they would kick him out and sign a peace treaty with Israel. When they don't have anything of their own (Arafat has all of it for himself!), they will have nothing to lose... Desperate people make good soldiers.
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Post by Vimara on Mar 22, 2004 23:20:54 GMT -5
Alex you dont have to justify yourself by saying you are not jewish. im not jewish and im PRO ISREAL!
everyone around isreal hates them yet they stand strong. politics is politics but the arabs are insane.
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Post by galvez on Mar 23, 2004 2:07:41 GMT -5
1) I live in a building. If anyone wanted to bulldoze my house, they would have to destroy the whole building Israel does that on occasion. That sounds bold, but what if you grew up watching your parents getting harassed by foreign soldiers who humiliated them, who established roadblocks preventing free travel, who established curfews, and who prevented pregnant women from getting to hospitals? Do you think, upon some type of retaliation by your kinsmen, that you would be shaking the hands of these soldiers? Presumably a pencil can kill someone if used in a certain way. This seems the most reasonable part of your post. Many Palestinians agree with you on this, actually. When Israel kills innocent Palestinian children, is that not terrorism? That's interesting. Do you have a link to support that claim? I never really liked Arafat either, but $1 billion is A LOT of money for a Palestinian to have.
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Post by alex221166 on Mar 23, 2004 11:07:23 GMT -5
"Israel does that on occasion." In that case, the civilians are entitled to a compensation. That's what courts of law are for... "That sounds bold, but what if you grew up watching your parents getting harassed by foreign soldiers who humiliated them, who established roadblocks preventing free travel, who established curfews, and who prevented pregnant women from getting to hospitals? Do you think, upon some type of retaliation by your kinsmen, that you would be shaking the hands of these soldiers?" I can tell you one thing I wouldn't do: I wouldn't murder inocent civilians as a payback. "Presumably a pencil can kill someone if used in a certain way. " Yes, but it is best used for its original purpose: to write. Rocks can easily kill someone, and the Israeli soldiers tend to use rubber bullets when facing riots. "This seems the most reasonable part of your post. " I am a reasonable person. "Many Palestinians agree with you on this, actually." A pity that 200.000 mourned the death of the old crow... "When Israel kills innocent Palestinian children, is that not terrorism?" If they intended to kill the children, it is terrorism. If they didn't, it is an accident. When a guy blows himself up inside a bus filled with children, that is not an accident. "That's interesting. Do you have a link to support that claim? I never really liked Arafat either, but $1 billion is A LOT of money for a Palestinian to have." www.google.com/search?hl=pt&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=arafat+money&lr=Not when that Palestinian receives tens of millions every year from most Arab oil-rich countries. You should also research on who has been ruining the efforts of the Palestinian prime-minister to turn Palestine into a true democratic state. He has even been threatened... guess by whom?
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Ioulianos
Full Member
Anegnon,Egnon,Kategnon
Posts: 199
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Post by Ioulianos on Mar 23, 2004 20:21:29 GMT -5
im not jewish and im PRO ISREAL! Both sides have killed a lot of innocent people,what make you choose one?
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Post by HINDI on Mar 23, 2004 21:38:13 GMT -5
This sickens me. How can 2 racially related groups of people kill eachother like this...
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Post by Vimara on Mar 23, 2004 22:14:01 GMT -5
Ioulianos , easy pick up a news paper or watch tv news....
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Post by galvez on Mar 24, 2004 5:17:10 GMT -5
In that case, the civilians are entitled to compensation. That's what courts of law are for... In practice, barring exceptional cases, the top brass of Israel's military are not reprimanded for their human rights abuses against the Palestinian people; and Israel's top politicians are complicit in many of their activities. Yet you callously dismiss the Palestinian civilians killed as "collateral damage." I haven't heard of a rock killing a soldier, although if it has happened it would in any case be an extraordinary circumstance. The Israeli soldiers do wear helmets. Rubber bullets have seriously injured and even killed Palestinian civilians. They can be deadly when fired from a short range, especially when the head is targeted. He was a quadriplegic who served time in Israel's prisons. He was more of a figurehead than anything. Hamas will continue to commit terrorism without him. I am not going to weep crocodile tears for the Palestinian people like the neo-Nazis and Nordicists do, but I think it hypocritical that it's politically correct to be pro-Israel when Israel functions in certain ways like Nazi Germany: officially putting ethnic self-interest as a top priority.
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Post by sublime on Mar 24, 2004 5:37:55 GMT -5
Terrorism is not a valid form of warfare. Had the Palestinian leaderships realised that, they would probably have gathered a great deal of international support. Is Israel's policy of assassinating Palestinians without any form of trial not terrorism? After all what is terrorism but resorting to violent means to secure political ends.
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Post by alex221166 on Mar 24, 2004 6:51:06 GMT -5
"In practice, barring exceptional cases, the top brass of Israel's military are not reprimanded for their human rights abuses against the Palestinian people; and Israel's top politicians are complicit in many of their activities."
That is likely, but then again the same thing happens in the Palestinian side (which is why the leader of a terrorist group was given a state funeral and three days of mourning declared in Palestine).
"Yet you callously dismiss the Palestinian civilians killed as "collateral damage." "
Callously? I am just using the same expression used during the Kosovo war to describe the hundreds (or thousands?) of Serbs butchered by NATO and by the UÇK.
All the civilian casualties are regretable, but the Arabs are ridiculously pathetic in thinking that they can beat the Jewish state with terrorism. Non-violent protest would have turned the world against Israel, and they would have gotten what they want a long time ago.
Another thing you seem to be forgetting is the amount of regional hostility faced by the Jews almost upon arrival. Had they been defeated, and we wouldn't even be talking abut Israeli violence because all would have been butchered.
"I haven't heard of a rock killing a soldier, although if it has happened it would in any case be an extraordinary circumstance. The Israeli soldiers do wear helmets."
Let me tell you something: a slingshot in the eye can easily kill someone, or at least blind it. I do not pity people who throw rocks because those are the same people that would shoot assault rifles or RPGs if they had any.
"Rubber bullets have seriously injured and even killed Palestinian civilians. They can be deadly when fired from a short range, especially when the head is targeted."
Then I guess the Palestinians should wear helmets too...
"He was a quadriplegic who served time in Israel's prisons. He was more of a figurehead than anything. Hamas will continue to commit terrorism without him."
Yes, but they have been hummiliated. Now it is time to target the second in command.
"I am not going to weep crocodile tears for the Palestinian people like the neo-Nazis and Nordicists do, but I think it hypocritical that it's politically correct to be pro-Israel when Israel functions in certain ways like Nazi Germany: officially putting ethnic self-interest as a top priority."
I actually agree with you, and I disagree with some of the policies that are going on in Israel, but then again it is easy for us to criticize when we haven't faced real terrorism since the foundation of our own nations.
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Post by Graeme on Mar 24, 2004 10:58:07 GMT -5
What is forgotten here is that the state of Israel is a bastard, born out of terrorism (Likud) with the assistance of foreigners. The Jews are Europeans or Moroccans or Indians or whatever and should have stayed in their own countries. Afterall they hate each other, Sephardim, Askenazim, Oriental, Ethiopian, Russian etc they have nothing except a lot of shared BS to bind them together. Zionism is racism. And who helped the Palestinians when they were forced to leave their country and live as unwanted refugees in Arab countries? No one. Terrorism was their last and only way to fight. If foreigners invaded my country I would use guerilla tactics against them just as the Iraqis are doing to the foreigners invading their country today. And I wouldn't care who I killed.
There are two sides to every issue and the Jews in "Israel", they should have called it Judea since they are not Israelites, started it all with terrorism and violence. And some of you blame them for wanting their country back and not kissing Jewish arse.
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