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Post by Dienekes on Jan 31, 2004 16:24:46 GMT -5
The lineage of the National Socialist ideology is not open to debate. National Socialism is the ideology of the NSDAP. Anyone who calls themselves National Socialist implicitly admires the ideology of the NSDAP.
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Post by Artemidoros on Jan 31, 2004 16:36:27 GMT -5
Äåí ìðïñù íá åéìáé åéóáããåëåáò êáé äéêáóôçò óôçí éäéá õðïèåóç áëëá íáé ìïõ êáèåôáé óôï óôïìá÷é. Ï÷é ãéáôé åéìáé áíôéèåôïò ìå ôçí åíôáîç ôçò Ôïõñêéáò, áí ðëçñåé ôéò ðñïõðïèåóåéò áò âáëïõí êáé ôç Ñïõáíôá ìåóá. Ïìùò ôçí ðïëéôéêç ôïõ äùóå ôæáìðá ôç èåùñù åðéæçìéá êáé åðéêéíäõíç êáôñáêõëá. Ôùñá ôï íá áðïäåéîù ïôé åéíáé áìåñéêáíéêç äéáôáãç åéíáé áëëç õðïèåóç.<br>
Áéóèáíåóáé ïðùò áéóèáíïìïõí ðñéí áðï 20 ÷ñïíéá. Åéìáé ìåãáëõôåñïò êáé ç ìíçìç ìïõ ðáåé ìáêñõôåñá. Å÷ù éäéáí áíôéëçøç êáé ôçò Äåîéáò äéáêõâåñíçóçò.
Óáí äéêáéïëïãéá åéíáé áðáñáäåêôç, íïìéæù ôï êáôáëáâáéíåéò.
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Post by Artemidoros on Jan 31, 2004 16:49:14 GMT -5
National Socialism is more Greek then it is anything. The main ideals of such a theory come mostly from Ancient Sparta. Do not confuse people who are National Socialist for Pro-German or "Neo-Nazis". I myself do not support Hitler and im very anti-Nordic. How do you feel about Ioannis Metaxas? National socialism or whatever you like to call it has nothing to do with Sparta. For a start Sparta had kings, ephoroi and ecclesia. Your version of tyranny might have a king but it is just that. Tyranny. For Metaxas I feel mostly pity. For he was such an inadequate adversary of Venizelos, for he was never popular (not for lack of trying) and for being stabbed in the back by those he considered "natural allies". This is very generous from someone who believes freedom of speech, which Metaxas abolished, absolutely sacred. By freedom of speech I mean the expression of ideas, not name calling.
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Post by Satyros on Jan 31, 2004 17:07:46 GMT -5
Íáé äåí åßíáé êáëÞ äéêáéïëïãßá áëëÜ êáôáëáâáßíåéò íïìßæù ôé åííïþ. Áõôïß ìå êõâåñíÜíå, áõôïýò âñßæù áöïý äåí óõìöùíþ ìå ôç äéáêõâÝñíçóç ðïõ êÜíïõí. Åúíáé ðïëý áðëü.<br> ÅÜí êõâåñíÞóåé êáé ç äåîéÜ, ìåôÜ óõæçôÜìå ðïéïò Þôáí ï êáëýôåñïò..
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Post by AWAR on Jan 31, 2004 17:09:20 GMT -5
I don't know much about the subject you're debating about, but I do know a helluva lot about human nature.
It's in human nature to fantasize, whenever someone thinks of Sparta, they all think they'd be the rulling class, nobody thinks they'd be slaves.
Same goes for all other tyrannies, just simply conforming to the standards set by the tyrant doesn't mean that you won't eventually get heavily burned by the consequences of such rule.
Authoritarian/totalitarian regimes have a nasty habit of being totally devoid of understanding for the ordinary individual. Remember also that in EVERY system injustices happen.
In extreme regimes small injustices can mean death.
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Post by Yiannis on Jan 31, 2004 17:11:38 GMT -5
We should not write in Greek in this Forum. It's not polite for the other forum-members.
But perhaps there can be a part for non-english discussions?
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Post by Dienekes on Jan 31, 2004 20:48:18 GMT -5
I'm no big fan of dictatorship in general or of Metaxas, but I think that it should be acknowledged that Metaxas was a patriot and a worthy leader at the time when Greece was invaded.
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Post by Satyros on Feb 1, 2004 0:21:26 GMT -5
If it is not essentialy German in origin why should it be called National Socialism and not Nationalism, or something originaly Greek? I agree with the strong European ideal of Xrisi Aygi, but i am not willing to label myself a blind follower of an originally North European ideology when my own history provides so many original unique and different ideologies. I spit on the graves of the German soldiers who caused my country so much suffering then, and i spit on their ideology too... Metaxas will be forever honoured for saying "NO" to the enemies of Greece, despite the fact that he was maybe opressive as a governor. Ever wandered why his name does not exist in any Greek schoolbook?
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Post by Satyros on Feb 1, 2004 0:26:17 GMT -5
Well, it is usually the consious leftists that preach what you preach Yannaki, i m not just making this up, am I?
You are wrong about that
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Post by Archangelos on Feb 1, 2004 4:33:55 GMT -5
Satyros im not sure why its called National Socialism and not something more Hellenic, but then again why is anything named what it is. National Socialism is about viewing the nation as a living, breathing, creature. Its about love for ones own people and wishing to see the nation as a whole evolve towards greatness. For those who wish to attempt to make it seem as if anyone who is NS is right out evil and such, are just doing what they claim we are doing. They are pushing their beliefs onto society about us, when those beliefs just arent true. If it is wrong to love ones nation and race, then i dont want to be right.
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Post by geirr on Feb 1, 2004 7:26:55 GMT -5
National Socialism is more Greek then it is anything. The main ideals of such a theory come mostly from Ancient Sparta. Do not confuse people who are National Socialist for Pro-German or "Neo-Nazis". I myself do not support Hitler and im very anti-Nordic. I have followed this thread with keen interest and I am bemused at Greeks refering to themselves as national socialist. National socialism is a political ideology that started in Germany, its fairly well explained in Hitler's book 'Mein Kampf' and other literature. It has nothing to do with Greek history. The nazis believed that the spartans and all great hellenic peoples were infact nordic germans which explained why ancient Greece was so great, the Nazis were intelllectually warped. National socialism is a clearly defined political ideology, the term 'Nazi' comes from the two first words of NSDAP 'National Sozialiste deutsche Arbeiter Partei'. Archangelos, your not a national socialist your just a common every day nationalist.
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Ioulianos
Full Member
Anegnon,Egnon,Kategnon
Posts: 199
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Post by Ioulianos on Feb 1, 2004 9:14:06 GMT -5
Den ofelei se tipota i daimonopoiisi i i agiopoiisi toy Metaxa.Pano kato itan ola ta proigumena mazi:Pire viaia tin exusia kataliontas ton koinovuleytismo,diwxe (kapoies fores ohi adika) tous komunistes,eftase sto simio na strafei enantion sygekrimenwn ellinikwn plithismwn nomizontas oti htypa twn topikismo (horismos ton maniatikon eparhion kai oysiastiki erimosi tis periohis,afoplismos tis kritis kai metofora tis kritikis merarhias,diwxeis slavofonwn kai vlahofonwn ellinikis katagwgis kai synidisis,poy polemisan yper tis Elladas stous Valkanikus polemus,logw hrisis tou idiomatos tous,...).Episis itan dioratikos poltikos,afou proetimaze ti hora epi 4 hronia gia ton eperhomeno polemo,anidiotelis kai itan aftos pou eipe to OHI sto italiko telesigrafo:Gia ena epos analogo tou 1940 einai anagaia toso i "adamasti thelisi tou laou gia antistasi" pou evagelizontai oi aristerulides oso kai i yparxi enos "megalou igeti" pou ymnun oi ellinarades.Otan lipei to prwto ehume katastaseis analoges tis ptosis tis Polis:o Konstantinos Palaiologos me 9000 Ellines kai 4000 Latinus stratiotes na aminete tis polis kai 400000(!) antres alkimis ilikias na apofevgun ti strateysi,kleismenoi se monastiria.Otan leipei o igetis,akoume apo tous ethnarhes mas oti "i Kypros einai makria" (apo pou??!!??),i "efharistume tous Amerikanous...".To paradeigma twn Imiwn einai haraktiristiko gia to pws i apofasistikotita enos igeti allazei tin istoria stis 2 ta ximeromata,otan i adamasti thelisi tou laou koimate kai otan xypnisei to prwi ehei idi vrethei pro tetelesmenwn.
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Ioulianos
Full Member
Anegnon,Egnon,Kategnon
Posts: 199
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Post by Ioulianos on Feb 1, 2004 9:22:28 GMT -5
Oson afora to thema tis Ellinikotitas,toulahiston se oti me afora,elliniko einai to adogmatisto.Otan me rwtoun an eimai aristeros i dexios,komunistis,ethnikososialistis,fileleftheros,xristianos,ethnikos,voudistis,...,apla apanto Ellinas.Telos gia to thema tis Spartis,2 stihoi tou Kavafi gia ton istoriodifi filo: "To fronima tis Spartis asfalws den itan ikanos,na noiwsei enas Lagidis htesinos,"
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Post by Archangelos on Feb 1, 2004 13:20:19 GMT -5
Why is it, then when Ideologies are talked about, Communism and National Socialism are always treated so different. No one calls Communism a Russian Ideology or calls anyone pro-russian or such. Everyone seems to forget the crimes of the Communist people, no matter how huge they are. Everyone seems to understand that a Soviet is a Communist, but not all Communist are Soviet. Yet with Fascism or National Socialism, its like no one can be that except a German or a wannabe German. Everyone seems to want to talk about the crimes of the German state and not the good things that came out of it, which are many. No one seems to get that a Nazi is a National Socialist, but not all National Socialists are Nazis. Do you realize how stupid that sounds? Just because a certain ideology comes to power in another nation first, it must for all time only be used by that nation? Please. Nazism, which is the verson of National Socialism followed by the Germans, was more of a Nordic Nationalism, then anything. Their have been National Socialist/Fascist Governments all over the world, and in each country they are alittle different. Germany, Italy, Croatia, Romania, Spain, Greece, and Portugal for some quick examples. Of course Hellenic National Socialism/Fascism is going to be alot different then say German or Spainish.
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Post by Melnorme on Feb 1, 2004 14:25:04 GMT -5
Why is it, then when Ideologies are talked about, Communism and National Socialism are always treated so different. Communism was a global movement ( 'Workers of the World, Unite!' ). National Socialism, OTOH, was based on specific race and ethnicity. That said, I'm pretty sure that during the Cold War any communist/socialist was ( rightfully ) suspected of being in league with the 'Russkies'.
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