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Post by Dienekes on Jan 30, 2004 23:05:31 GMT -5
Greeks who consider themselves national socialists or using NS symbols are idiots who are spitting on the graves of all the Greeks who died defending Greece against the Germans and of all the Greeks who died as a result of the German occupation of Greece. The last thing that Greeks need is to adopt degenerate foreign ideologies such as national socialism or communism.
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Post by Archangelos on Jan 31, 2004 3:29:28 GMT -5
Degenerate foreign ideologies? Metaxas himself was a Greek National Socialist, which shows the difference between Hellenic and German Verson of the ideology. Ancient Sparta is the basic outline for the whole belief system. So i ask how is it Foreign? Just because it blew up in Germany and thats where it is most known for and where it was hijack and used for evil, now i must be pro-german? I think not.
How fast you forget it was Metaxas and the Hellenic NS who fought so bravely to save Greece from Italy and Germany during WW2!
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Post by Dienekes on Jan 31, 2004 3:50:10 GMT -5
Metaxas was a Greek nationalist, he was not a Nazi. Get your facts straight. The Nazis invaded Greece and killed Greek people. Any Greek who admires the Nazis is a traitor in my book.
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Post by Yiannis on Jan 31, 2004 5:20:56 GMT -5
It's certainly not up to Artemisia to decide if I'm Greek or not. Fyi, I come from Samos.
When it comes to violence, dear Artemisia, these ignorant buffoons of these Nationalist orgs, have attacked foreign immigrants as well as Greeks. Apart for the vicious beatings that took place, there were a few DEATHS as well (one Greek student amongst them). Members of Chrysi Avgi are in prison for that and a few are still wanted to pay for their actions. So dear, so much for non-violence (btw, do you live in Greece? how come you've never heard? Oh! I forgot, also the Germans " didn't know" of the war crimes).
Metaxas was a dictator who killed and imprisoned many people. The Greeks who fought against the Fascists and the Nazis had nothing to do with Metaxas' stupid ideology. My father and uncle fought in Albania and trust me they hated him, they fought and bled for the freedom of their country.
If I recall, the Spartans kept their neighboring Greeks in slavery and lived as parasites on them, so nothing noble about that.
Thank God that people like you are condemned in the conscience of the proud, democratic and warm towards foreigners, Greek people and that shows in the elections' results. It's a blessing to live in a multicultural society as it advances you as an individual. This is the way that Greeks have lived since the dawn of time and this is how we'll continue.
Dienekes, these people are in the forum because they mistook it for some forum that deals with genetics and biodiversity as a vehicle for the promotion of racist theories. (Their stupidity is only surpassed by their ignorance - they have my contempt)
Regards, Yiannis
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Post by Satyros on Jan 31, 2004 7:57:57 GMT -5
Seira gia eparhia tis Tourkias ehei prwta i Kypros. Me to shedio Annan dinontai stin Tourkia epemvatika dikaiwmata kai me ti dialysi tis Ethnikis Frouras i Kypros afinetai ermaio twn Tourko-Nazi tis Angyras. Pragmatika prokeitai gia xepoulima. Dehontai na steiloun 5,000 stratiotes gia ta matia tou kosmou, oi opoioi tha ginoun omiroi se periptwsi pou yparxei krisi. I geitones mporoun na steiloun 5,000+ sta metopisthen twn Ellinwn opote goustaroun me ena mono perasma. Diathetoun 400 elikoptera kai 80 metagwgika aeroplana. I Ellada ehei mono 15 metagwgika. Fysika i Eur. Koin. an yparhei einai amfibolo an tha kounisei to dahtylaki tis. Dystyhws i vlakeia, i mywpia kai i osfyiki eukampsia den einai monopwlio tis Aristeras. Yparhoun pampolloi kai stis dynasteies tis allis oxthis. Oute oi ligoi exalloi evraiofagoi voithoun tin katastasi. Óõìöùíþ, ç Êýðñïò åßíáé ôåëåéùìÝíç õðüèåóç. Áöïý õðÜñ÷åé ç Ôïõñêßá éó÷õñÞ êáé óýììá÷ïò ôçò ÁìåñéêÞò, ôüôå áíáãêáóôéêÜ èá õðáêïýìå êáé ìåéò óáí ÷þñá óå üëá áõôÜ ôá îåðïõëÞìáôá, ìå ôéò áñéóôåñÝò çãåóßåò ðïõ Ý÷ïõìå. Ôé áéóèÜíåóáé åóý üìùò üôáí áêïýò üôé ï ÃéùñãÜêçò èá âÜëåé ôçí Ôïõñêßá ìÝóá óôçí Å.Å.; ÁéóèÜíåóáé üôé ðáëåýåé ãéá ôá åèíéêÜ ìáò äßêáéá Þ üôé áðëÜ õðáêïýóåé óôïõò áöÝíôåò ôïõ; Äåí åßíáé ëïéðüí ðñïäüôçò;<br>Êáé ìç ìïõ óõãêñßíåéò ôïõò áñéóôåñïýò âëÜêåò ìå ôïõò äåîéïýò âëÜêåò óå ðáñáêáëþ. Ïé áñéóôåñïß åßíáé áõôïß ðïõ êõâåñíÜíå åäþ êáé 20 ÷ñüíéá êáé Ý÷ïõíå êáôáíôÞóåé ôç ÷þñá üðùò ôçí Ý÷ïõíå êáôáíôÞóåé. Ôï íá åßóáé óôáëéíéêüò äåí äéþêåôáé óôçí Åëëáäá, ÔÉÌÁÔÁÉ. Ôï íá åßóáé ÷éôëåñéêüò åßíáé ôï ÷åéñüôåñï Ýãêëçìá êáôÜ ôçò áíèñùðüôçôáò. ÊÜôé ôÝôïéá âëÝðù êáé áãáíáêôþ êáé óêÝöôïìáé ðïëëÝò öïñÝò üôé êáëþò õðÜñ÷ïõí êáé ïñãáíþóåéò óáí ôçí ×ñõóÞ ÁõãÞ....ôïõëÜ÷éóôïí ãéá íá åîéóïñïðïýíå ôï Üëëï Üêñï ðïõ âñßóêåôáé óôï áðõñüâëçôï..
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Post by Satyros on Jan 31, 2004 8:05:02 GMT -5
National Socialism is more Greek then it is anything. The main ideals of such a theory come mostly from Ancient Sparta. Do not confuse people who are National Socialist for Pro-German or "Neo-Nazis". I myself do not support Hitler and im very anti-Nordic. How do you feel about Ioannis Metaxas? WHy is National Socialism more Greek then it is anything else? If their ideal is mainly Ancient Spartan, why not call themselves modern Spartans or something, but adopt foreign things and symbols of the WW2 era?
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Post by Satyros on Jan 31, 2004 8:09:49 GMT -5
Degenerate foreign ideologies? Metaxas himself was a Greek National Socialist, which shows the difference between Hellenic and German Verson of the ideology. Ancient Sparta is the basic outline for the whole belief system. So i ask how is it Foreign? Just because it blew up in Germany and thats where it is most known for and where it was hijack and used for evil, now i must be pro-german? I think not. How fast you forget it was Metaxas and the Hellenic NS who fought so bravely to save Greece from Italy and Germany during WW2! Remember Metaxa's ideology: he wanted to create the third Greek civilization, the grecochristian one, remember? His ideology was specifically Greek, not much in common with the German version of nazibloodthirst, e?
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Post by Satyros on Jan 31, 2004 8:31:47 GMT -5
I dont see you discussing any ultra left wing violence Yiannis, why dont you do that since you are soooo democratic, E? You know VERY WELL what i m talking about, the kind of violence that rages every year during certain dates, and which police nevers interferes with, because obviously in our country violence is characterized according to the political beliefs of the person who performs it.
Metaxas only imprisoned his political opponents the communists, because he would not be able to stay in power. All Greeks fought and bled for their country then. Or are you going to tell us it was only communists who did that? Are you gonna tell us it was only comunists who fought against Germans in the National Resistance?? These left wing and pseudosocialist Pasok monkeys do not even respect the dead....
If i recall, you are a modern Greek living uder the Papandreou dynasty. In this respect you are in no position to judge the heroic Spartans, nor the time they lived in , you are simply not worth to do that. But dont worry, its "not your fault"....
If you believe it is a blessing to live in a multicultural society, then remove the words "proud" and "Greek" from your texts, you have no idea what these words mean i m afraid. No Greek can be proud living in a multicultural society, because if he was proud he would be labeled a racist or a facist BY THE SAME PEOPLE LIKE YOU. And we cant remain Greek for long in a multicultural society. Hey at least i hope you are having a great time fitting the Albanian, Pakistani and Nigerian culture in your personal Greek culture. Have fun kai me ti niki o Yorgakis!
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Post by Archangelos on Jan 31, 2004 13:18:20 GMT -5
You all have the wrong idea. Do not confuse Nazis with all National Socialist. A Nazi is a National Socialist from the German Workers Party that followed Hitler. Not all National Socialists are Nazis, Not all National Socialist like Germany or Hitler, i myself am one that hates Nordic Nationalism, which was all Nazism was. You call Metaxas a Greek Nationalist, not a National Socialist? You are very mistaken. Also please only use the term Nazi for talking about the Germans of WW2, not todays National Socialist, it just shows how little about the subject you know. Just because someone is a National Socialist doesnt mean they admire the Germans, this is a myth that liberals seem to push on everyone. Its simple not true, again i myself do not admire the Germans, yet i am a National Socialist. It does happen. Not all Communists are Soviets. Yiannis, again you show how little you know about the History around Metaxas, hes regime did not kill many people at all, infact they had the least amount of deaths then any other National Socialist government. I suggect you read the book, Popular Autocracy in Greece 1936-41 by P.J. Vatikiotis. Also no one is saying anything racist, again it is your ignorance on the subject and your misguided liberal views that are causing the problems. I suggest you read up on your Hellenic History my friend. Also if you love your Multicultural society, what do you think is going to happen to Greece when the minority outnumber the Greeks? Satyros, no one is adopting foreign symbols from the WW2 era, infact it was the Germans who adopted our symbols if you sit down and look at ancient Hellenic Art, even the Roman Salute comes from Greek Origins and was used inside Metaxas controlled Greece. You are correct about Metaxas ideology, which show that you can have a non-German National Socialism. I just cant understand why people are so close-minded and stupid to understand that National Socialism wasnt a German idea and you can be NS and not love Germany. How fast everyone forgets that the Left has killed more people then the Right. The Soviets alone have a higher death count then the National Socialists of Germany. Yet i dont see anyone bashing the Left? Why is that? Also all people are racist to a point,people need to just admit it. Its natural, people just tend not to like what they arent use to or is different to them. Im not saying its right or wrong, just that its natural and hence everyone to a certian point is. So just get over it. If you want to see a movement that was National Socialist, but Pro-German, founded in 1933 The Greek National Socialist Party of George Mercouris was all but a cheap imitation of Hitler and the Nazis. Metaxas himself, although very pro-german, hated Hitler and Mussolini's versons of the Right-wing Ideology and hence didnt like Greeks who were pro-Hitler, yet Metaxas and all these people shared something in common, they were all Right-wing, National Socialist/Fascist. For those of you who wish to know more about Metaxas's Ideology, here we go. bks.ark11.net/sparta.htmwww.ethniko.info/metaxas/article11.htmlwww.ethniko.info/metaxas/article24.htmlwww.ethniko.info/metaxas/article27.html
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Post by Artemisia on Jan 31, 2004 13:21:41 GMT -5
If I recall, the Spartans kept their neighboring Greeks in slavery and lived as parasites on them, so nothing noble about that. If only the modern Greeks could aspire to become like Ancient Spartans! Alas, they don't even want to think about it. Get this straight, Yanni. The whole world admires ancient Sparta because their system was based on patriotic values......something that most modern Greeks are not capable of doing. Yes, the Messenians were their servants (not slaves), but their SYSTEM worked. It has been admired for centuries and has inspired many politicians. You have to read more ancient Greek history, pal. After all, the Greeks were the people who called everyone else "barbarian".....and not only because they didn't speak Greek! Democracy was inclusive to the city-state and foerigners could not vote. Only on rare occassions did a foreigner become an Athenian citizen. When I say I like nationalism, I do not imply that I like Naziism. I am against the Nazis but I would support a Greek nationalist group. Communists and left-wingers will not dictate the rules of society forever. Nationalists are simply people who love their country and this does not mean that they hate all other countries. If, for example, the Albanians live in their own country (Albania) instead of being allowed by PASOK foreigners to settle in Greece, no one would dislike them. It seems that people like you, Yanni (and you too, Dienekes! I am ashamed because you are a Pontian!) do not seem to understand WHEN something is dangerous and destructive for a society and when something is not.
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Post by galvez on Jan 31, 2004 14:50:24 GMT -5
Dienekes, these people are in the forum because they mistook it for some forum that deals with genetics and biodiversity as a vehicle for the promotion of racist theories. (Their stupidity is only surpassed by their ignorance - they have my contempt) No offense, but you don't seem to be "tolerant" of other viewpoints. Calling people "racists" simply because you disagree with them is not the proper way to handle a debate.
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Post by Yiannis on Jan 31, 2004 15:06:53 GMT -5
Where did you read me saying that only communists have fought for the freedom of Greece? Who gave you the right to stick political labels on me? Who gave you the right to put words in my mouth? Why do you want to present me as a Pasok (or whoever else) supporter? I forgot, people like you take their thoughts and project them as God-given truth that must be imposed on others.
Please read what you people have written: "Metaxas only imprisoned his political opponents the communists" !!! ONLY!!! "Yiannis, again you show how little you know about the History around Metaxas, his regime did not kill many people at all, infact they had the least amount of deaths then any other National Socialist government" !!!NOT MANY PEOPLE!!! About the Spartans: "Yes, the Messenians were their servants (not slaves), but their SYSTEM worked"! TELL THAT TO THE MESSENIANS!!!
When it comes to multinational societies, you are all very keen in condemning the Albanian or Nigerian cultures but you don't seem to have any problem with the e.g. Danish, American or German ones... you get my drift? Me one the other hand recognize the value of ALL cultures as well as their uniqueness. Of course I prefer the Greek one but reject none other.
When it comes to my history knowledge, please spare me! Just trust me when I say that I have read more than the whole bunch of you put together, not to mention that mostly I have read from the sources. The difference with you is that I have comprehended what I read.
To the rest of the forumers: Please realize that these people have entered this forum BY MISTAKE! They are part of a pitiful xenophobic, ultra-nationalistic minority of the Greek society and the fact that many of them have gathered here should not mislead you.
Oh, one last thing. Artemisia is saying "The whole world admires ancient Sparta because their system was based on patriotic values." I say, "if the patriotic values are to oppress and enslave others (especially your fellow-countrymen), then I shit on them"
Regards, Yiannis
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Post by Yiannis on Jan 31, 2004 15:09:49 GMT -5
No offense, but you don't seem to be "tolerant" of other viewpoints. Calling people "racists" simply because you disagree with them is not the proper way to handle a debate. Sorry Galvez, but if someone is pro-SocialNationalism then s/he's racist by definition.
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Post by AWAR on Jan 31, 2004 16:05:51 GMT -5
When it comes to my history knowledge, please spare me! Just trust me when I say that I have read more than the whole bunch of you put together I can vouch for that.
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Post by Yiannis on Jan 31, 2004 16:22:08 GMT -5
That was really kind, thanks!
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