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Post by Planet Asia on Jan 24, 2006 22:44:52 GMT -5
Concerning reality check: Sending her to Nigeria or Kongo and if she looks strange there black is a problematic category for her. I heard an interesting story of a half German mulatta which considered herself always black as a child, but then she came to her village in Africa and all people spotted with fingers at her while she was going alone around and shouting "white, white" because the older children didnt saw a white person live before... I think that says it all... It says...social construct? I think that anyone who cares about how another person racially self-identifies needs their head checked. Even worse, I think its stupid for people to discretely classify American blacks based on physical looks and say well since you don't look like Whoppi or wesley, you are not and should classify as black, but I'll be damned i I call myself a mullato, a term originally applied to animals like mules.
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Post by Planet Asia on Jan 24, 2006 22:47:52 GMT -5
Agrippa, do you consider german tennis player Nicolas Kiefer, who is half german half french, to be a german? By the way, in Brazil a mulato would never in his life consider himself black, maybe that is why "african americans" go to Brazil and are shocked when they see that black mixed people dont consider themselves black. I actually think brazilians are more accurate. No, Brazilians aren't more accurate, their race classification system is just as so called screwed up as anybodys. Latin American countries are really screwed up when it comes to race classification.
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Post by asdf on Jan 24, 2006 23:12:47 GMT -5
It says...social construct? I think that anyone who cares about how another person racially self-identifies needs their head checked. Even worse, I think its stupid for people to discretely classify American blacks based on physical looks and say well since you don't look like Whoppi or wesley, you are not and should classify as black, but I'll be damned i I call myself a mullato, a term originally applied to animals like mules. That isn't quite correct. 1) It applied originally to any type of hybrid - it meant half-breed. 2) The etymological origin isn't certain: The origin of the term is often said to derive from "mula", the Spanish word for mule, once a generic designation name for any hybrid. This is not certain but, as a result, it is considered offensive by some English-speakers, who might prefer terms like "biracial" instead. Others however insist on the use of the term mulatto because it is more precise. It must also be noted that words change their actual meaning independently from their etymological origin. Many words that are now widely used once had a negative origin. (examples are: hysterical (sexist origin), berber, slavic, hapa etc.) Spanish-speakers do not consider "mulatto" offensive. In Latinamerica the term is even associated with beauty and sometimes with artistic ability. An alternate etymology traces mulatto to the Arabic muwallad, which means "a person of mixed ancestry".
Etymological origin: Muwallad vs. Mula
Muwallad referred to children of Arabs and foreign mothers, such as the children between Arabs and black African slave women. Some of these children who were actually mulatto and who were usually not discriminated against succeeded their fathers as caliphs. According to professor Labrado muwallad is the etymological origin of mulato.
Another theory maintains that mulato would not have been directly derived from muwallad but from muladi which was in turn derived from muwallad. The term mulato is documented in the data bank of the Real Academia Española for the first time in 1549, while muladi does not appear until the half of the XVIII century. However it is very unlikely that this reflected the actual period of coinage. How could muladí be coined three to four hundred years after the Arab period in Spain? Common usage could not pull an Arabic word out of thin air to serve as model. The explanation for the late occurrence of muladí in Spanish dictionaries is not hard to find. Both muladí and mulato would have originated not in Christian Spain, but among Christians living under Islamic rule - the "mozarabes" (practicing Christians and Arabic speaking Christians), and later the "muladíes" (Christians converted to Islam). www.answers.com/mulatto&r=67Half-breed, and mixes always developed a negative connotation of course, and half my family still calls each other mulo, mulada, etc. But they mean angry or throwing a hissy fit or some crap like that.
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Post by Agrippa on Jan 24, 2006 23:28:23 GMT -5
If you prefer biracial or coloured... Eurafrican is also somewhat problematic in the context of "white Africa" and Europid racial types along the Atlantic coast.
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Post by nockwasright on Jan 25, 2006 4:37:22 GMT -5
About the one drop rule, its justified by history. Blacks is America have been historically defined as that group of person of African descent who where first slaves, then second class citizens. Halle Berry would have fit those categories so correctly she defines herself "black" imo. I guess African American mainly means "if I had been born in 1800 here I would have been born a slave".
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Post by eastanglian on Jan 25, 2006 9:39:33 GMT -5
There was me thinking Nazi ideas had died out in Germany So you base whether someone is German on what they look like, if someone is half German and half Turkish you only consider them German if they look German. You are nothing but a racist. This is how Nazism started the whole concept of nationality based on race, 'the jews aren't German'. What the f*ck is progressive anyway?
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Post by Planet Asia on Jan 25, 2006 10:47:21 GMT -5
If you prefer biracial or coloured... Eurafrican is also somewhat problematic in the context of "white Africa" and Europid racial types along the Atlantic coast. Nope, just black would be fine, not coulored or biracial.
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Post by jam on Jan 25, 2006 17:18:34 GMT -5
Concerning reality check: Sending her to Nigeria or Kongo and if she looks strange there black is a problematic category for her. I heard an interesting story of a half German mulatta which considered herself always black as a child, but then she came to her village in Africa and all people spotted with fingers at her while she was going alone around and shouting "white, white" because the older children didnt saw a white person live before... I think that says it all... It says...social construct? I think that anyone who cares about how another person racially self-identifies needs their head checked. I don't understand why you have to identify with anything WHY - the only plausible explanation is that you're still influenced by age old racism, why else? (edit, I changed the wording, it didn't come out as i intended)
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Post by Agrippa on Jan 25, 2006 17:25:55 GMT -5
I have nothing against National Socialism, but I dont consider myself being a NS and see certain mistakes of it.
Its not just about the look, its about what he is in all respects - a non-European can never be a German - everything else is just a perverted idea which will lead to the destruction of the German folk and Europeans in general.
Furthermore no, it didnt began with "Nazism", in fact it was the other way around, the anomality is to consider totally foreign and different people to be the same and to be members of the same tribe not just in exceptional cases, but as a rule. That Liberal-Individualistic approach is a new and awful invention and if you know anything about Europeans and ethnology in general, you know that it is not the usual way to accept anybody of totally different heritage as a member of the ethnic group. Btw, to tolerate something is one thing, to say a Negrid can be German is something totally different! I have nothing foreign racial types, they are just no Europeans and dont belong to us Germans or Europe, thats the point. Individual exceptions are not the problem for me, its the mass immigration.
Nationality is not just based on race in my concept, you can read other texts from me f.e. on Skadi & Stirpes, but here as well.
Btw PA, you didnt answered this:
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Post by anodyne on Jan 25, 2006 18:00:48 GMT -5
So if a black was raised in German culture he's basically non German? But if a Frenchman is raised in Germany he can be considered a German? Sounds irrational considering both individuals are culturally German.
It's not that a person with a different heritage is accepted as a being a member of an ethnic group but that they are allowed to partake in a society if he believes in its principles. An Irish- American doesn't consider an Italian- American to be an Irishman but he does consider him a fellow American considering culturally they are more similar than different since they were both raised in the US. The tribal mentality that some people push is silly and can only marginalize people as it does with many blacks in the US.
It seems you're interested in protecting a supposed German racial character. There is no German character set by genetics. You can take a look at how 3rd or 4th generation German immigrants in any nation where they are accepted are more like the majority of the host population than Germans raised in German culture.
I'm against massive immigration to Europe but no doubt its not for the same reason.
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Post by Dienekes on Jan 25, 2006 18:13:53 GMT -5
Both biology and culture are important in ethnic identity.
Someone is Greek for example, if he considers himself Greek and is considered by other Greeks to be Greek. This is a self-referencing definition which nonetheless does converge to a meaningful definition of what "Greek" is.
Both culture and biology are important determinants of how one person sees themselves and how they are seen by other persons. It is psychologically improbable for example that a Chinese person would ever develop a Greek ethnic identity in the sense of feeling Greek and not feeling Chinese, or that other Greeks would consider such a person as Greek and not as Greek Chinese.
Both appearance and culture matter in ethnic identity.
Personally, I don't consider anyone who doesn't have Greek ancestry to be ethnically Greek. I consider the offspring of Greek and foreign parents to be Greek as long as they have an exclusive Greek ethnic consciousness. I do, however, believe that it is psychologically improbable in most cases that such bi-ethnic offspring will develop an exclusive Greek ethnic consciousness at the expense of their other ancestry.
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Post by eastanglian on Jan 25, 2006 18:32:50 GMT -5
Oh dear. You can see nothing wrong with the genocide of a whole people I need to get away from this forum, I didn't realise it was populated by nazis. And a mod aswell
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Post by anodyne on Jan 25, 2006 19:07:33 GMT -5
Both biology and culture are important in ethnic identity. Someone is Greek for example, if he considers himself Greek and is considered by other Greeks to be Greek. This is a self-referencing definition which nonetheless does converge to a meaningful definition of what "Greek" is. Both culture and biology are important determinants of how one person sees themselves and how they are seen by other persons. It is psychologically improbable for example that a Chinese person would ever develop a Greek ethnic identity in the sense of feeling Greek and not feeling Chinese, or that other Greeks would consider such a person as Greek and not as Greek Chinese. Both appearance and culture matter in ethnic identity. You're right. The Chinaman, although culturally Greek, would still be considered "an other" by the vast majority of Greeks. I consider this an irrational attitude since a culture isn't developed as a result of inherent racial characteristics but by environment and historical factors. That the Chinaman's ancestors didn't go through the same experiences, and is racially different, than his Greek neighbors doesn't take away that he was brought up in Greek society and culture and has more in common with a Greek than someone living in China. He wouldn't feel very Chinese since culturally he has no connection to China. Of course, in a situation like that the Chinaman would have to have been adopted and raised by a Greek family. An immigrant Chinese family where the child lives in two worlds, Greek outside the home and Chinese inside the home, is a different situation.
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Post by anodyne on Jan 25, 2006 19:12:27 GMT -5
Oh dear. You can see nothing wrong with the genocide of a whole people I need to get away from this forum, I didn't realise it was populated by nazis. And a mod aswell That doesn't makes him a nazi. But I'm not surprised by his lack of hostility towards National Socialists. Walking on the same philosophical road.
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Post by atlantis on Jan 25, 2006 19:39:19 GMT -5
Hey Charlie,
You are not African! So don't call yourself "African" American. You should call yourself Black American, just like the Whites in America who call themselves White American and not "European American".
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