CI drops by 8 points in Germany since 1944

[Polako]

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10027042&dopt=Abstract

[wendland]

This topic of debrachycephalization has come up before in reference to Central European populations over the post war generations. What would be the main reason for this change? Is it just random "unimportant" change? Is something different in the environment? What in the environment would "need" for people to be brachycephalic or not? Are they becoming dolichocephalic or mesocephalic?

[Polako]

wendland said:

This topic of debrachycephalization has come up before in reference to Central European populations over the post war generations. What would be the main reason for this change? Is it just random "unimportant" change? Is something different in the environment? What in the environment would "need" for people to be brachycephalic or not? Are they becoming dolichocephalic or mesocephalic?

Looks like Central Europeans are becoming mesocephalic on average, with a higher incidence of dolichocephalic individuals than in the the last few centuries.

Hard to say what the cause is. Maybe better nutrition?

[wendland]

Could be better nutrition, but what about populations that were dolichocephalic with poor nutrition (I suppose)-- Sweden used to be one of the poorest countries in Europe, not to mention Ireland (I assume they're rather dolychocephalic).

[One Humanity]

wendland said:

This topic of debrachycephalization has come up before in reference to Central European populations over the post war generations. What would be the main reason for this change? Is it just random "unimportant" change? Is something different in the environment? What in the environment would "need" for people to be brachycephalic or not? Are they becoming dolichocephalic or mesocephalic?

Maybe someone could buy the whole article to know it... "Possible causes of this process of debrachycephalisation are focussed in this article".

Does it also affect the facial breadth? The head doesn't just get longer, the breadth decreases in exchange of the length: "The head circumference, however, remains nearly constant between 1985 and 1995".


The widespread brachycephalization in Southern Germany was not the result of selection according to Schwidetzky because the given time was much too short.

Agrippa mentioned multiple possibilities:
forum.stirpes.net/showthread.php?t=5735

For example:
".) Infantilisation because of a rapid body reduction and adaption to an extreme environment - the adult body status is not really reached in certain racial groups, they keep more child-like features, but not just on the head, the whole body and form is more infantile. Certain hormonal changes influence the whole body type because of this infantilisation, even the head gets broader, shorter, rounder."

".) Just "selected with", f.e. because they were more resistent against a disease, the disease brachycephaly is no direct advantage, but a feature associated with it."

[Dienekes]

Height being equal, a dolichocephalic head has a lower volume than a brachycephalic one with the same perimeter.

[Agrippa]

Its interesting that whereas mesocephalic-mixed head forms become definitely longer with better nutrition, I read in some sources that dolichocephalic heads can become somewhat broader too - just the whole size is going up and in mesocephalics more in lengths.

I think its primarily nutrition indeed, since a slightly changed CI alone doesnt make someone a different race, especially Alpinoids, not fully reduced with more Cromagnoid tendencies or mixed, seem to develop a more Cromagnoid form, size and measurements again with better nutrition whereas the more extreme forms just stay the same and only increase size with a minor CI change, that would be my guess.

[quarryman]

I think it's especially interesting that the recent process of debrachycephalization is observed in roughly the same areas (central Europe) that - according to older anthropologists - went through a very extensive brachycephalization during the latter half of the middle ages. If the grave material from, say, around the year 1 000 in present Poland, Germany, Czech rep and the like show almost exlusively longer heads - why did the form change into a more globular form (climate changes took part mostly in the 17th century; and the brachycephalization shows no definite links to causes like the Black death or other problematic periods)? Why did it stay like that for more than 500 years? And why now longer? I think that the changes in nutrition must have been much more important between, for example, the years 1630 and 1930 than between 1930 and today.

A romantic could perhaps find links between head shape and the level of freedom in society - during feudalism, early capitalism and totalitarian rule, heads were rounder. Free early medieval farmers and members of post modern states have longer heads. But now we are reaching the deep swamps were it is easy to get lost.

[Polako]

We really don't have any evidence that the numbers of the so called sub races are staying the same as stature and CI change dramatically in central Europe.

I suspect that they are not.

[quarryman]

polako said:

We really don't have any evidence that the numbers of the so called sub races are staying the same as stature and CI change dramatically in central Europe.

I suspect that they are not.

Btw, what does "eight points" mean?

[Polako]

quarryman said:

polako said:

We really don't have any evidence that the numbers of the so called sub races are staying the same as stature and CI change dramatically in central Europe.

I suspect that they are not.

Btw, what does "eight points" mean?

For example, from CI 84 to CI 76. That's what I assume they mean.

[quarryman]

Can't possibly be! It sounds far too radical a change in a such short time.

[Polako]

quarryman said:

Can't possibly be! It sounds far too radical a change in a such short time.

Well that's what CI points are. Can't think what else they could mean.

It'd be good to see the report though.

[quarryman]

I agree. If it's what you think, perhaps the whole concept of CI should be reconsidered.

[Agrippa]

Sure it means what he said...

It should be considered if the sample was representative and unchanged - I doubt it. 8 points is just too much I think, though mixture would lead in my opinion to longer average heads too.