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Post by Arthur_Eld on Dec 25, 2005 17:56:31 GMT -5
Strange. Is Capelle type the rugged one labelled "Brünn" by Coon? Someone divides Europid types into Cromagnid and Capellids, thinking this one is a refined, less rugged subvariety which includes both Nordids and Mediterranids. The "Atlanto-Mediterranean" in Coon's view is a slender, dolicocephalic Mediterranid type found in North and East Africa, the Mediterranean and the British Isles. Hooton's upper palaeolithic is also dolichocephalic.. Head form: very long, usually over 200 mm., very dolichocephalic, length-breadth index usually under 75; occiput protuberantBut on the other hand.. This exceptionally long-headed type is notable for the great size of the brain-case and its rugged bony construction. The face is commonly long and massive, but it may be rather short, perhaps oftenest when bodily stature is below medium. The jaws are nearly always deep and heavy..Sounds like a typical cro-magnon type.
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Post by Dienekes on Dec 25, 2005 18:45:14 GMT -5
Renato Biasutti uses the five-type system that I also use for Europe. So-called "Brunns" are just a local form of Ireland. No physical anthropologist except Coon ever accepted the existence of a Brunn race. Moreover, Coon himself later abandoned the concept of a Brunn race, and accepted that Western Europe was inhabited by four races, the Mediterranean, the NW European, the Alpine, and the Nordic. This is a near-perfect match with Deniker's old system. Indeed, the Nord-Occidental of Deniker (which was a mix of the Litoral and Nordic) is exactly the same as the NW European of Coon.
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Post by Educate Me on Dec 25, 2005 20:17:34 GMT -5
what is the nw european?
atlanto mediterraneans?
(I am guessing NW means north western)
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Post by One Humanity on Dec 25, 2005 21:00:20 GMT -5
It's Lundman's Nord-Atlantid, a Nordid subrace in his scheme. He also saw a variant similar to Nord-Atlantid in Switzerland (~Coon's Keltic Nordic?).
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Post by Crimson Guard on Dec 25, 2005 22:15:03 GMT -5
Strange. Is Capelle type the rugged one labelled "Brünn" by Coon? Someone divides Europid types into Cromagnid and Capellids, thinking this one is a refined, less rugged subvariety which includes both Nordids and Mediterranids. The "Atlanto-Mediterranean" in Coon's view is a slender, dolicocephalic Mediterranid type found in North and East Africa, the Mediterranean and the British Isles. Hooton's upper palaeolithic is also dolichocephalic.. Head form: very long, usually over 200 mm., very dolichocephalic, length-breadth index usually under 75; occiput protuberantBut on the other hand.. This exceptionally long-headed type is notable for the great size of the brain-case and its rugged bony construction. The face is commonly long and massive, but it may be rather short, perhaps oftenest when bodily stature is below medium. The jaws are nearly always deep and heavy..Sounds like a typical cro-magnon type. UP's though are a Mediterranean Sub-Race.
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Post by gambin on Dec 25, 2005 22:38:12 GMT -5
UP's though are a Mediterranean Sub-Race. hmm. i dont think so. UPs are represented by Y-Chromosome R1b, whilst Mediterraneans are that of J or G. The taxonomy could probably use some work, but there's no doubt that there's a significant separation between Mediterraneans and "dark" Brits. At least, genetics suggests such.
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Post by Crimson Guard on Dec 26, 2005 1:59:10 GMT -5
Here: www.geocities.com/dienekesp/hooton/?200528This is a very important and interesting part: <<The Mediterranean Subrace. Probably the name, Mediterranean, is as good as any for a designation of the great subrace of basic, long-headed brunets that constitutes the largest number of Whites, was certainly the earliest White subrace, and retains the full pigmentation of hair, skin, and eyes that was characteristic of early Homo sapiens. The name is adopted from the great Italian anthropologist Sergi, who used it however, as a racial rather than a subracial title. >> Platypus and some others like taking jabs at me,cause I give Mediterranean classifications as if I crazy and/or an agenda driven comedian..Well their you have it! ;D
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Post by Platypus on Dec 26, 2005 8:47:42 GMT -5
I cant sleep at night because of it Crims Btw Cro Magnids are simply different if not opposite to Meds (size, robusticity etc) Big jaw vs. gracile jaw etc I wouldnt have to walk far from my house to eventually meet large headed, thick set individuals, that 'look different' from the mainstreem. This type approaches the UP form. Coon's North Western type is composite type that includes: 'robust' Nordics Atlantids and Brunns The Brunn type is not only Irish, Dienekes is wrong, thats a SNPA invention. Scandinavia and the rest of Britain are also typical areas.
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Synthesis
Full Member
Hegelian Leftist
Posts: 156
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Post by Synthesis on Dec 27, 2005 10:07:39 GMT -5
Yes, but also the Rif in Northern Morocco. Besides, I think that "Keltic Nordid" should get a better definition: many so called "Keltic Nordids" are infact Nordatlantids or Atlantomediterranids.
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Post by Mike the Jedi on Dec 27, 2005 10:22:26 GMT -5
Well, Dienekes, that's all Brunns/Phalians/Paleo-Atlantids are. Local NW European types. I see no conflict with Deniker/Biasutti here. Lundman, Eickstedt, and Coon just have more refined systems, which is fine in my opinion.
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Post by asdf on Dec 27, 2005 10:58:19 GMT -5
Yeah, I really don't see the disagreement here. Almost everyone has the same 5-6 sub-race system. Agrippa uses the same system for Europe. Getting rid of Lappoid and Armenoid you only have 6. img184.imageshack.us/img184/5461/races23od.jpgNordid = Nordic Mediterranid = Mediterranean Baltid/Osteuropid = Baltic Alpinoid = Alpine Dinarid = Dinaric Cromagnid = (You don't use it for some reason, but Borrebies, being neither infantalised nor reduced don't fit into your system) (Lappoid = Uralic) Striking difference, isn't there, Dienekes? Sometimes you're two letters off. And I'm pretty sure I've seen you classify Yigal as Coarse Mediterranean, which is strange if another local type, Palaeatlantid doesn't exist.
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Post by Mike the Jedi on Dec 27, 2005 11:23:16 GMT -5
Why are Saharids considered Mediterranid and not a category of their own like Orientalid and Indid? The latter interpretation makes more sense to me (because the former reminds me of ye ol' brunet belt from Spain to India).
Also, where do Berberids and Berids fit in that scheme? I've heard them both described as Cromagnoid and Mediterranoid, almost as if nobody can really decide where they fit. "Coarse Mediterranean," the other name for Berid, would seem to imply Mediterranid for that type. And I think Zidane would fit in more as a Cromagnid than a Mediterranid. Not sure how that works.
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Post by asdf on Dec 27, 2005 11:35:18 GMT -5
They'd have to be Mediterranid. As far as I know, it's an Iberian type as well as a North African one.
It depends on how close you want to put East-Mediterranids/Caspids.
Yes, but he said it. How can he agree that that type exists but can't understand Cromagnids, which is what the Berid is gotten from. Berids are cromagnoid, alpinoid and mediterranoid, I guess. Berids are half-reduced, broad, coarse-featured, and even has nose not far from Yoda there's. It's awkard to fit them quite into Mediterranids. Look at Agrippa's map and pretend the Alpinoid circle is borders on Berid. That's pretty much where they fit.
Berberids are Mediterranoid Cromagnids. Somewhat worse example of a Cromagnid than a Dalofaelid/Faelid, in the same way Scando-Nordid is to Nordid than Fenno-Nordid.
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Post by asdf on Dec 27, 2005 11:38:25 GMT -5
-Lundman.
To be honest, I'm pretty fuzzy on South-Mediterranids/Saharids. I've rarely seen it associated with Spain and Portugal on this forum too. Although Luispaniard pointed out Andalusia is at least a tenth North African.
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Post by asdf on Dec 27, 2005 17:13:55 GMT -5
I can't speak for Spain, but from the large amount of Portuguese I've seen, including the south, the Mediterranids extant were only Western.
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