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Post by k5125 on Jun 4, 2005 19:30:00 GMT -5
Or was there a major population shift?
What I mean is, are today's Iraqi's really "arabs" meaning arabians? Or are they simply arabic speaking descendants of the babylonians.
A mixture of both perhaps? Maybe the invading arab armies intermarried like crazy with these indigenous Iraqis therefore creating the typical Iraqi face we see on TV today.
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wade
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Post by wade on Jun 4, 2005 19:33:07 GMT -5
i dont think they looked anything like arabians.. also iraqis dont look arabian either... the majority of iraqis have noticible to quite significant arabian component. most middle easterners carry a heavy component from arabians. ..so yes, i do not think they looked like modern day iraqis.. like in palestine, it's easily told, when there is someone who has arabian admixture, first off the skin is so much darker colored. i doubt aboriginal northern middle easterners resembled arabians much it likely was a similar type, of course, middle east being semitic but the there is clear difference in arabia middle east vs non arabia middle east. the climate and everything (arabia vvery hot dry southern desert) northern middle east/levant being more meditteranean. i mean just taking that alone in consideration, the people arent going to be alike..
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Post by mike2 on Jun 4, 2005 19:34:14 GMT -5
Well the present day Iraqis certainly aren't Arabians, because they do not share an Arabid phenotype.
Iraqis are overwhelmingly Irano-Afghan filled in with pockets of Atlanto-Mediterraneans. There is also a Veddoid or partially Veddoid minority in some areas near the Persian Gulf methinks.
That said, I think present day Iraqis do represent the Babylonians and Sumerians fairly well. At least they come closer than anybody else.
My question is besides language and religion, are there major racial differences between Assyrians and other Iraqis? Coon said the Assyrians were brachycephalized, but I don't know if that's true or not.
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Post by asdf on Jun 4, 2005 20:04:13 GMT -5
Are you implying Phœnecians and Arabians are similar types because they're both "semitic"? I'm confused. Aren't Kurds, Jews, Syrians, etc, closer to Europeans genetically than Arabians?
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Post by k5125 on Jun 4, 2005 20:44:35 GMT -5
You don't think Iraqis have arabian features? I think Uday could pass as saudi any day. Qusai too. They are very orientaloid. The Assyrian community and Iraqi Jewish community tends on average to be lighter than the Iraqi Arab majority don't you guys agree?
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wade
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Post by wade on Jun 4, 2005 20:51:52 GMT -5
nah i wouldnt say theyre very "orientalid" or can pass as arabian, but they do have a quite a bit of arabian admixture, i think saddam has the least of the three.. qusay just looks like a something(i dont know) with saudi..whatever other admixture they got, its mixed with arabian, i mean ^^you can see the obvious arabian in them. saddams from tikrit i beleive, northern-central iraq.
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Post by lurker4now on Jun 4, 2005 21:12:32 GMT -5
many arabs are mixed.im not talking about 5-15% im talking about 35-47% globalpolitician.com/articleshow.asp?ID=246&cid=2some quotes: "This conclusion is favored by the fact that Yemenite Arabs have 35% Black African genes in their mtDNA (which passes through the mother), while others have less." "The "real" Arabs -- those who have Arab ancestors stretching beyond the last 1,400 years – are actually 35% Black in their mtDNA. These Arabs are from the Arabian peninsula.[2]"
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Post by k5125 on Jun 4, 2005 21:14:33 GMT -5
Good link.
Btw, what do you think of the Iraqi Jew I posted? You think the original babylonians looked like him? He has a very interesting face.
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wade
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Post by wade on Jun 4, 2005 21:15:48 GMT -5
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Post by lurker4now on Jun 4, 2005 21:18:06 GMT -5
also the Haplogroup 9 (hg9) is "semitic" which would be "arab" i havent seen any up dates on the % of middle easterns. also if you compare phenotypes of "veddoids" alot of arabs have this phenotype
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Post by lurker4now on Jun 4, 2005 21:20:23 GMT -5
Good link. Btw, what do you think of the Iraqi Jew I posted? You think the original babylonians looked like him? He has a very interesting face. i would say yes because iraqi jews/middle eastern jews are still "semitic" due to the hg9
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Post by lurker4now on Jun 4, 2005 21:21:42 GMT -5
Wade fix the pictures so they fit the screen.
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Post by k5125 on Jun 4, 2005 21:34:11 GMT -5
Good link. Btw, what do you think of the Iraqi Jew I posted? You think the original babylonians looked like him? He has a very interesting face. i would say yes because iraqi jews/middle eastern jews are still "semitic" due to the hg9 So you would agree that based on that picture the Iraqi Jewish look is different from the Iraqi arab look? Gernerally speaking of course.
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Post by lurker4now on Jun 4, 2005 21:47:56 GMT -5
i would say yes because iraqi jews/middle eastern jews are still "semitic" due to the hg9 So you would agree that based on that picture the Iraqi Jewish look is different from the Iraqi arab look? Gernerally speaking of course. February 12, 2004 On Iraq Figured I'd give you a link to something a bit different about Iraq. The paper (it is PDF-here is the html version) is titled Y-chromosome & mtDNA polymorphisms in Iraq..... The low-down: Iraqis are more similar to Levantines and populations to their north (Anatolians) than the Arabs to their south (though they are related to them as well). The M17 marker mentioned earlier that might be indicative of Indo-Europeans shows about at a 6.5% frequency among men sampled (about the same as western Iran). The very small samples of Kurds & Assyrians showed no stark differences from the Muslim Arabs. www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/001843.html
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Post by lurker4now on Jun 4, 2005 21:53:21 GMT -5
i would say yes because iraqi jews/middle eastern jews are still "semitic" due to the hg9 So you would agree that based on that picture the Iraqi Jewish look is different from the Iraqi arab look? Gernerally speaking of course. The Y chromosome pool of Jews as part of the genetic landscape of the Middle East. Nebel A, Filon D, Brinkmann B, Majumder PP, Faerman M, Oppenheim A. Department of Hematology, Hebrew University-Hadassah Medical School, Jerusalem 91120, Israel. A sample of 526 Y chromosomes representing six Middle Eastern populations (Ashkenazi, Sephardic, and Kurdish Jews from Israel; Muslim Kurds; Muslim Arabs from Israel and the Palestinian Authority Area; and Bedouin from the Negev) was analyzed for 13 binary polymorphisms and six microsatellite loci. The investigation of the genetic relationship among three Jewish communities revealed that Kurdish and Sephardic Jews were indistinguishable from one another, whereas both differed slightly, yet significantly, from Ashkenazi Jews. The differences among Ashkenazim may be a result of low-level gene flow from European populations and/or genetic drift during isolation. Admixture between Kurdish Jews and their former Muslim host population in Kurdistan appeared to be negligible. In comparison with data available from other relevant populations in the region, Jews were found to be more closely related to groups in the north of the Fertile Crescent (Kurds, Turks, and Armenians) than to their Arab neighbors. The two haplogroups Eu 9 and Eu 10 constitute a major part of the Y chromosome pool in the analyzed sample. Our data suggest that Eu 9 originated in the northern part, and Eu 10 in the southern part of the Fertile Crescent. Genetic dating yielded estimates of the expansion of both haplogroups that cover the Neolithic period in the region. Palestinian Arabs and Bedouin differed from the other Middle Eastern populations studied here, mainly in specific high-frequency Eu 10 haplotypes not found in the non-Arab groups. These chromosomes might have been introduced through migrations from the Arabian Peninsula during the last two millennia. The present study contributes to the elucidation of the complex demographic history that shaped the present-day genetic landscape in the region. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11573163&dopt=Abstract
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