Study: Med. Men have higher Testosterone Levels

[Sandwich]

one Celtic woman could fight five Roman soldiers at the same time, and *this* was written by a Roman

That's funny, I thought Caesar is supposed to have described the Celts as Weeny, Weedy and Weaky.

Who was this Roman ? The Greek chap from Antioch? Wasn't the conventional wisdom that one well-trained properly equipped Roman was worth 5 Celts? Of course if you're talking about five non-Roman foreigners, a Roman historian did say that about a Celt and his missus.

Certainly, the Anglo-Saxons were horrified at the sheer size of the Danes and other Vikings. But I thought Caesar considered the Belgian Celts quite docile compared to the Germans. It depends on which Celts you mean I suppose.

[One Humanity]

AWAR said:

Oh, yes, that's from the book
"Celtic women vs. 5 Roman men"
by Plinius McAugustus

Better known as the old five-against-one game in a similar setting.

[captainusa1]

Sandwich said:

That's funny, I thought Caesar is supposed to have described the Celts as Weeny, Weedy and Weaky.

Who was this Roman ? The Greek chap from Antioch? Wasn't the conventional wisdom that one well-trained properly equipped Roman was worth 5 Celts? Of course if you're talking about five non-Roman foreigners, a Roman historian did say that about a Celt and his missus.

Certainly, the Anglo-Saxons were horrified at the sheer size of the Danes and other Vikings. But I thought Caesar considered the Belgian Celts quite docile compared to the Germans. It depends on which Celts you mean I suppose.

I read the quote in a book. I'll post the source if and when I find it. Most histories that I've read describe the average ancient Celt as being larger than the average ancient Med. Here's a quote about the subject.

"Nearly all the Gauls are of a lofty stature, fair and ruddy complexion: terrible from the sternness of their eyes, very quarrelsome, and of great pride and insolence. A whole troupe of foreigners would not be able to withstand a single Gaul if he called his wife to his assistance, who is usually very strong and with blue eyes; especially when swelling her neck, gnashing her teeth, and brandishing her sallow arms of enormous size, she begins to strike blows mingled with kicks, as if they were so many missiles sent from the string of a catapult."
-Ammianus Marcellinus (c. A.D. 360)
www.isle-of-skye.org.uk/celtic-encyclopaedia/celt_g1b.htm

That was a clever line about Julius Caesar BTW. Your use of humor trumped your grasp of history in that case, but I'll give you props for a good joke.

[Sandwich]

Well, that's the Roman historian I had in mind. A Greek, actually. You do have another ? This one does not serve your purpose. You'll notice he talks about a Gaul being equivalent to a troupe of foreigners. He was also a Roman officer and would hardly have described Celts as equivalent to a whole troupe of Romans, despite your original claim.

Here's a different observer:

There is not much difference between [Britons and Gauls] in language, the same boldness in courting danger, and, when danger looms, the same panic in avoiding it Tacitus Agricola

Going into battle with no trousers does that to you.

I think most commentators agree that the Celts were taller and more excitable. What I was saying was that as part of a fighting unit, they were usually no match for a disciplined legion with javelins and stabbing swords. There were exceptions of course. Suetonius Paulinus' defeat of Boudica, when with one legion he inflicted losses of c 50,000 for the loss of 400 was not one of them. Neither was the decisive battle of Telamon.

[Caipira1]

Melnorme, thinking testosterone and criminality are correlated is non-sense. There´s not such a clear evidence about that, just especulation. If those scientists are right, why the Brittish crowds in soccer stadiuns are MUCH more violent than the Portuguese ones?

[Melnorme]

Caipira1 said:

Melnorme, thinking testosterone and criminality are correlated is non-sense. There´s not such a clear evidence about that, just especulation. If those scientists are right, why the Brittish crowds in soccer stadiuns are MUCH more violent than the Portuguese ones?

British crowds are drunk? ( Northern Europeans get drunk easier than Southern Europeans, and that is proven. )

[captainusa1]

Sandwich said:

Well, that's the Roman historian I had in mind. A Greek, actually. You do have another ? This one does not serve your purpose. You'll notice he talks about a Gaul being equivalent to a troupe of foreigners. He was also a Roman officer and would hardly have described Celts as equivalent to a whole troupe of Romans, despite your original claim.

I agree that he probably wasn't referring to Roman soldiers. I posted the quote because it dealt with the size of Celtic men and women. I thought that it was appropriate for the conversation. I'll look for that other quote because I know that I didn't imagine it (unless I've lost the plot).

[alex221166]

Melnorme said:

British crowds are drunk? ( Northern Europeans get drunk easier than Southern Europeans, and that is proven. )

Fair enough - but why does Portugal have one of the lowest (if not THE lowest) violent crimes rate in Europe?

[Melnorme]

alex said:

Fair enough - but why does Portugal have one of the lowest (if not THE lowest) violent crimes rate in Europe?

I'm not making any claims. I just don't think it's "unfortunate" to attempt to discover a link between testosterone and violent behavior.

Anyway, it could be that the overall testosterone differences within Europe are small enough that cultural/social differences take precedent.

[AWAR]

Melnorme said:

I'm not making any claims. I just don't think it's "unfortunate" to attempt to discover a link between testosterone and violent behavior.

Anyway, it could be that the overall testosterone differences within Europe are small enough that cultural/social differences take precedent.

Unfortunately, everyone is grasping at straws to make a "racial difference" between Northern and Southern Europe, and that produces a lot of contradictory statements.

In reality, the difference in testosterone probably isn't that great, or is related to the number of sunny days in some region etc.

[Sandwich]

And while the violent tendencies of the English may be partly due to say low levels of serotonin. which seem to be a component in this equation (See 216.117.159.91/crimetimes/98b/w98bp8.htm)
other factors surely play a part.

Like the fact that the English (not the Scots, mind) are a people in a strange state of permanently contained violence culturally. I will happily insult a Frenchman in a bar, knowing that the risk I run is a shouting match or a slap in the face at worst. In England, nobody gratuitously takes such risks unless looking for trouble. Courtesy prevails - because if you do insult an Englishman, a broken glass will be heading for your face next second. I doubt even Sicilians have such a punctilious sense of personal honour. Do Sicilian children carry knives to school today? Many English children do.

I gather America is even more fearsome, with the chance of being unlucky and falling upon people likely to use guns with minimum provocation. Is this true?

Or am I being naive about the degree of sanity in other European countries, even France?

[Graeme]

Sallow arms? Isn't sallow a sickly yellow. Does not sound like my idea of a white skinned Keltic beauty.

What everyone is referring to are cultural differences and differences in the level of self control.

As for testosterone and violence/crime. There is a correlation, but it has to do with one's sex not the actual level. It is the male of the species that leads in crime and violence whether it is in France, UK, USA or Portugal.

[Ptolemy]

AWAR said:

In reality, the difference in testosterone probably isn't that great, or is related to the number of sunny days in some region etc.

Please try to site a source to back up your claim before making assertions like the above statement, especially if a valid study was posted disputing your conciliatory statement, a statment of which I do not particularly appreciate.

[deuceswild]

executiona9 said:

You should change the topic name into : Portuguese men have higher testosterone levels.

Just because Portuguese men have higher testosterone levels doesnt mean all southern-Europeans have that. Southern europeans are very diverse.

You cant compare an italian or bulgarian with a portuguese. All are different people.

Also in looks Southern-Europeans are very different. I can see the difference in looks between an Italian and a Portuguese from 10 miles away.

Portuguese people are much darker than Italians and Portuguese also look different when it comes to facial features. Besides looks also the behaviour of italians and Portuguese differs a lot.

Looks like you missed out on classifying me

dodona.proboards35.com/index.cgi?board=guess&action=display&thread=1086916637

[Ptolemy]

deuceswild said:

Looks like you missed out on classifying me

dodona.proboards35.com/index.cgi?board=guess&action=display&thread=1086916637

The study cited states that Portuguese men tested higher for testosterone levels than "American" men.

Considering that 13-14% of America's population is Black, and a good proportion of Americans are of Med descent, that must mean that the Portuguese's male testosterone level is sky high, or that Anglos and Mexicans (Mestizos) Americans are somewhat low.