Dean
Full Member
Truth Before Ego
Posts: 245
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Post by Dean on May 17, 2004 23:13:55 GMT -5
Here in Chicago, Illinois, there are not many Bulgarians. There are many others here from Balkan areas and eastern Europe, but I haven't seen many Bulgarians. I looked at photos of Bulgarians via the internet, to see if they look like Slavs or Turkic peoples from whom they've reportedly originated. Not an overwhelming number of Bulgarians I've seen in photos look Slavic or Turkic, like people from the former Soviet Union or central Asia. They certainly on the whole do not look like Polish Slavs, who are numerous in Chicago. Some Bulgarians I've seen could pass for Greeks or Italians--dolichocephalic with olive skin and curly brown hair. A few of them look like Peloponnesian Greeks. Others look Iranic/Asiatic (Scythians?).
Who are the Bulgarians? And does anybody have any idea as to the rough proportion of Turkic/Slavic invaders of the early Middle Ages compared with indigenous peoples in the modern Bulgarian population?
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Sss'ra
Junior Member
Posts: 67
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Post by Sss'ra on May 19, 2004 11:40:13 GMT -5
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Post by Artemisia on May 19, 2004 12:21:19 GMT -5
Bulgaria is a land that has been inavaded and settled by several ethnic groups. First, we have the Thracians, the original inhabitants of Bulgaria. Next, we have Greek settlers who settled the coastal areas and the interior (Plovdiv, Nicopolis ad Istrum, etc.) After that, several Roman legions also settled there (but not too many.) Gothic settlers followed in quite great numbers. Then Avaro-Slavic, Bulgar, and Turkic peoples followed. Add to that a number of Gypsies and Vlachs, and you got Bulgaria.  Interestingly, I think Bulgaria must be the most ethnically-diverse area of the Balkans. |
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Post by AWAR on May 19, 2004 14:47:54 GMT -5
Genetically, the Bulgarians are close relatives of the Serbs. They don't have significant Asiatic ancestry ( actually Serbs and Croats have more ), they just have a larger Neolithic ancestry.
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Post by Aria88 on May 19, 2004 20:27:09 GMT -5
I agree with Artemisia; in addition, also, there was a heavy Iranian element, according to Stoyanov, in his masterpiece, The Other God.
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Post by Aria88 on May 19, 2004 20:32:24 GMT -5
AWAR, I am just beginning to read Rex Germanorum Populos Sclavorum, by Vukcevich, concerning the Scythian/Sarmatian connection to the Slavs, in particular, Serbs and Croats. Are you familiar with it?
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Post by AWAR on May 19, 2004 20:58:29 GMT -5
AWAR, I am just beginning to read Rex Germanorum Populos Sclavorum, by Vukcevich, concerning the Scythian/Sarmatian connection to the Slavs, in particular, Serbs and Croats. Are you familiar with it? Nope, but I'm going to see in the library first thing tomorrow. I've read some interesting discussions on another ( invite only ) forum about the R1a, Eu19, Hg3 distribution among Serbs. Apparently, according to new genetic studies there were two ( or more ) migrations that brought Slavs into the Balkans. First one is said to be in the 5th century AD ( or earlier ), the other one probably after the Avar invasion. It seems that the second invasion genetic markers are akin to the first invasion markers, but apparently the second invasion ( Serbs and Croats ) is most likely of Sarmatian/Iranian origin. From what I gathered, the Slavs and Sarmatians had the same DNA, with some minor difference in mutations. |
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Dean
Full Member
Truth Before Ego
Posts: 245
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Post by Dean on May 20, 2004 6:31:11 GMT -5
I agree with Artemisia; in addition, also, there was a heavy Iranian element, according to Stoyanov, in his masterpiece, The Other God. I thought, "Scythians", even though I don't know a hell of a lot about them. How about "Kurgans"? I also see that the light-pigmented Poles have an Asiatic connection; a good number of them have aquiline noses, something I rarely see among other light-pigmented Europeans, e.g. people of Germanic ancestry. From the little I've seen, the Turkic element in the Bulgarians is very small. They don't look much like their neighbors, the Crimean Tatars. |
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Post by executiona9 on May 20, 2004 7:49:54 GMT -5
Hey Awar,
I agree with most things you post on forums, you are objective and have a lot of knowledge, but there is one thing I strongly disagree with :
If you tell me that Croatians and Serbs have greek, thracian or illyrian ancestry instead of slavic ancestry I would believe you. But iranian ancestry? That sounds like science fiction to me.
When you look at people from Iran and Yugoslavia (Croatia, Serbia etc) they have absolutely nothing in common with eachother. Most Iranians look like arabs, while Yugoslavians are just white Europeans.
Its the same as saying Norwegians are predominant of Nigerian ancestry, it doesnt make sense to me personally.
?
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Post by Melnorme on May 20, 2004 9:10:04 GMT -5
When you look at people from Iran and Yugoslavia (Croatia, Serbia etc) they have absolutely nothing in common with eachother. Most Iranians look like arabs, while Yugoslavians are just white Europeans. He's talking about ancient Iranic Sarmatians, not Middle Eastern Iranians. Oh, and btw, Iranians don't look quite like Arabs. |
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Post by Graeme on May 20, 2004 10:16:57 GMT -5
The Iranian connection is mainly ancient and linguistic. The Sarmatians and Alans spoke Iranian languages but are different from modern Iranians. The connection is logical as the satem branch of IE languages includes slavic and iranian languages.
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Post by wk2001 on May 20, 2004 10:29:17 GMT -5
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Post by wk2001 on May 20, 2004 10:50:58 GMT -5
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Post by buddyrydell on May 20, 2004 15:29:05 GMT -5
Actually to me she still appears somewhat Central Asian in the older photo as well. Are you positive that she's full Croatian? Her looks seem very atypical of any place in Europe and suggests significant non-European ancestry. |
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Post by wk2001 on May 20, 2004 15:58:33 GMT -5
Well,I'm about 99% sure, her last name is croatian, and I'm sure if she had a foreign parent it would 've been mentioned in articles about her.
She's from north Croatia, near Hungary, and her looks are very rare but allmost all of the people I ever seen that shared her looks were from north or east, not from the south, and never have I seen a partaily mongoloid looking person from Hvar island (where some avaric presence has suposedly been found).
Btw, in her older photo she looks like a slightly mixed brazilian to me,mostly caucasoid, like Adriana Lima kinda.
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