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Post by gambin on Jan 6, 2006 14:23:51 GMT -5
calabrians sicilians and sephardic jews are clustered together. maltese a bit closer to turks while cypriots are closer to near easterners. heh. top image is y chromosome plot.  heh. i figured they would have been closer to christian lebanese, but christian lebanese are closer to near easterners. calabrians seem to be transitory between spanish (iberians) and near eastern/levantine populations. however the lower plot shows the mtDNA, and reveals a greater european mediterranean homogeniety. calabrians and sicilians quite unambiguously cluster with western mediterraneans and central italians. morrocan jews are not too far away. levantine middle easterners and other arabs however are noticeably farther away. |
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Post by Drooperdoo on Jan 6, 2006 15:00:28 GMT -5
Let me get this straight: Greek Cypriots cluster closer to the Near East than Sephardic Jews?  So the Europeans are more Middle Eastern than the Jews??? Can this be right? (I always assumed that Sephardic Jews came from the Middle East originally. Are their Y-chromosomes implying a southern European origin?) * I, too, assumed that they would have clustered with the Lebanese. Didn't other genetic studies find that they clustered with Near Eastern peoples: Lebanese, Kurds, Armenians, etc.? |
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Post by gambin on Jan 6, 2006 15:03:15 GMT -5
sorry, SIT=calabrians just so you know. it wouldve been misleading.
SJE=sephardic jews.
I'm not sure if those were Greek Cypriots, but most probably they are. If they were Turk Cypriots they would have been denoted with a "TR" like the other Turks.
hmm genetics can be surprising. even ashkenazis were more near eastern.
My guess is male Sephardic Jews absorbed some Iberian genes along the path of their history, thereby drawing them closer towards the Western Mediterranean.
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Post by gambin on Jan 6, 2006 15:09:03 GMT -5
Let me get this straight: Greek Cypriots cluster closer to the Near East than Sephardic Jews? So the Europeans are more Middle Eastern than the Jews??? Can this be right? don't forget, even dienekes said that cypriots absorbed many semitic lineages. Cyprus was even settled by Phoenicians if I am not mistaken. Probably what draws the Sephardic Jews closer would be R1b in their lineages. R1b is not a predominating lineage even among continental Greeks, so it would not be far-fetched to extrapolate that it would be even lower in Cypriot Greeks. |
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Post by Drooperdoo on Jan 6, 2006 15:09:41 GMT -5
You said that it would appear that Jews aborbed some Iberian genes. But this analysis suggests more than "absorbing some". If they had absorbed just some than the majority of the Y-chromosomes would have been Near Eastern. From this analysis, it would appear that the majority of Sephardic Jews are actually Iberian.
I assumed that, mitochondrially [maternally], Sephardic Jews were Spanish. But I always assumed that the males were Middle Easterners. Does this study turn that theory on its head?
I'm fascinated.
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Post by gambin on Jan 6, 2006 15:13:17 GMT -5
* I, too, assumed that they would have clustered with the Lebanese. Didn't other genetic studies find that they clustered with Near Eastern peoples: Lebanese, Kurds, Armenians, etc.?well, one of the innovations is that more recently, genetics has been able to elaborate on the sub-clades of different haplogroups, such as J2, J, E3b, etc....whereas before it was just simply HG-9, HG-1, HG-21, etc. My guess is that by identifying these subclades and testing for them, the observational data would be more refined than the previous ones that used a comparatively "rudimentary" system. |
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Post by gambin on Jan 6, 2006 15:15:10 GMT -5
You said that it would appear that Jews aborbed some Iberian genes. But this analysis suggests more than "absorbing some". If they had absorbed just some than the majority of the Y-chromosomes would have been Near Eastern. From this analysis, it would appear that the majority of Sephardic Jews are actually Iberian. I assumed that, mitochondrially [maternally], Sephardic Jews were Spanish. But I always assumed that the males were Middle Easterners. Does this study turn that theory on its head? I'm fascinated. well, my guess is that sephardim males in iberia had greater reproductive output?? hmm maybe. It would be good to hear the thoughts of Dienekes and some of the sephardim in here. Edit: oops what I meant to say is that much of the jewish diaspora in Iberia would have been carried out by females who intermarried with Iberian men. |
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Post by Dienekes on Jan 6, 2006 15:34:47 GMT -5
don't forget, even dienekes said that cypriots absorbed many semitic lineages. I doubt it. |
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Post by gambin on Jan 6, 2006 15:50:31 GMT -5
don't forget, even dienekes said that cypriots absorbed many semitic lineages. I doubt it. Okay, maybe it was Praetor then. And maybe I should rephrase. Not "Semitic" genes per se, but perhaps contributions due to significant settlement of peoples from the North Levant. Okay, that sounds better. |
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Mr dark
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Post by Mr dark on Jan 6, 2006 16:00:31 GMT -5
do you have the full study? please post it or pm it.  |
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Mr dark
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Post by Mr dark on Jan 6, 2006 16:08:24 GMT -5
adding to the convo Villarreal's was E-3B, which is a Semitic haplogroup that evolved in East Africa and then spread around the Mediterranean and is most common today in the Middle East and in North and East Africa. Then there were his closest genetic matches. All three of them were to Jews in places like Hungary, Belarus and Poland. It appeared that the parish priest back in Saltillo had not been lying after all. www.houston-press.com/issues/2005-04-14/news/feature.htmlso J and E3b is semitic in origin |
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Post by gambin on Jan 6, 2006 16:12:43 GMT -5
mr dark, did you get the study?
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Post by Dienekes on Jan 6, 2006 16:14:29 GMT -5
adding to the convo Villarreal's was E-3B, which is a Semitic haplogroup that evolved in East Africa and then spread around the Mediterranean and is most common today in the Middle East and in North and East Africa. E3b is not a "Semitic" haplogroup. |
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Post by Crimson Guard on Jan 6, 2006 16:15:22 GMT -5
yea do me a favor and send me the Study to.
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Mr dark
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I can make your wishes come true
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Post by Mr dark on Jan 6, 2006 16:21:10 GMT -5
adding to the convo Villarreal's was E-3B, which is a Semitic haplogroup that evolved in East Africa and then spread around the Mediterranean and is most common today in the Middle East and in North and East Africa. E3b is not a "Semitic" haplogroup. family tree dna company Please note that people in different Haplogroups cannot be related within many thousands of years, and that each male test result provides a prediction of the Haplogroup currently about 90% of the time. In general the following rule of thumb may be used: Haplogroup Designation R1b Western Europe R1a Eastern Europe I Nordic J2 Semitic E3b Semitic Q3 Native American www.familytreedna.com/ftGroupQIGuide.html |
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