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Post by Funky Kong on Jan 6, 2006 16:49:22 GMT -5
Eh, why not post the full study here?
And by the way, Dodona is the last place i would had expected anyone call anything for "Semitic genes", hehe.
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Post by gambin on Jan 6, 2006 16:54:49 GMT -5
hmm. i amended my first post though. i don't like terms like "Semitic" genes as "Semitic" doesn't exist as a gene, but as a language. lol.
same thing with that e3b nonsense. lmao at semitic. a much closer (but still incorrect) misnomer would have been "hamitic" haplogroup.
those generalizations i think are for genetic newbies i suppose. only 2 very specific subclades of I can be considered "Nordic" for starters. Not all I is Nordic by any interpretation of the statement
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Post by Yankel on Jan 6, 2006 19:36:16 GMT -5
"Semitic" is not a language, it's a language family. A "Semite" is a descendant of Shem.
What study is this from? I have a feeling you've misinterpreted the crux of it.
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Dean
Full Member
Truth Before Ego
Posts: 245
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Post by Dean on Jan 6, 2006 19:53:11 GMT -5
For quite a while FamilyTreeDNA stated that haplogroup I is Scandinavian in origin and spread to southeast Europe in the distant past. Current theory strongly disputes this: I spread from southeast Europe to northern Europe.
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Post by gambin on Jan 6, 2006 20:10:35 GMT -5
that family tree study is not really a study but a very simplistic reference quick guide. but the capelli study is the most comprehensive study to be made yet on the mediterranean region. "language" wasn't really the "crux" of the study. it was based more on y chromosome and mtDNA frequencies based moreso on geography. dienekes himself wrote on the study: dienekes.blogspot.com/2005/09/y-chromosome-perspective-on.html
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Post by Dienekes on Jan 7, 2006 3:49:24 GMT -5
Family Tree DNA is a few years behind the curve when it comes to their explanations.
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Oldbrit
Junior Member
Infidel
Posts: 67
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Post by Oldbrit on Jan 9, 2006 8:23:17 GMT -5
You said that it would appear that Jews aborbed some Iberian genes. But this analysis suggests more than "absorbing some". If they had absorbed just some than the majority of the Y-chromosomes would have been Near Eastern. From this analysis, it would appear that the majority of Sephardic Jews are actually Iberian. I assumed that, mitochondrially [maternally], Sephardic Jews were Spanish. But I always assumed that the males were Middle Easterners. Does this study turn that theory on its head? I'm fascinated. I've seen mentions (I haven't any references to hand) of an early bronze age West med settlement in the Levant. The Canaanite peoples (inc. Israelites) would thus have some Iberian stuff as well as the armenoid contribution on top of existing east med/middle eastern. Come the diaspora the Sephardi would have had the west med components reinforced and the other lot would have the armenoid increased.
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Post by gambin on Jan 9, 2006 12:03:58 GMT -5
You said that it would appear that Jews aborbed some Iberian genes. But this analysis suggests more than "absorbing some". If they had absorbed just some than the majority of the Y-chromosomes would have been Near Eastern. From this analysis, it would appear that the majority of Sephardic Jews are actually Iberian. I assumed that, mitochondrially [maternally], Sephardic Jews were Spanish. But I always assumed that the males were Middle Easterners. Does this study turn that theory on its head? I'm fascinated. I've seen mentions (I haven't any references to hand) of an early bronze age West med settlement in the Levant. The Canaanite peoples (inc. Israelites) would thus have some Iberian stuff as well as the armenoid contribution on top of existing east med/middle eastern. Come the diaspora the Sephardi would have had the west med components reinforced and the other lot would have the armenoid increased. and yet the other Levant groups were quite separate from the western groups, and had quite low levels of R1b, which would have been the decisive variable in determining genetic proximity to the western mediterranean, which kind of agrees with what you said about the armenoid component increasing in the others (esp. the non-Jewish Levantines).
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Post by annienormanna on Jan 10, 2006 15:37:57 GMT -5
Best Study on Mediterranean Haplogroups and Haplotypes: Am. J. Hum. Genet. 74:1023–1034, 2004 There is a Gallo-Roman and Sarmatian circulation route for J2-M172, returning it back into Med, quite possibly via The Aquitaine, Tuscany, Trans-Carpathia into the Alps. It is more closely linked with transmisssion Mesopotamia to the Phoenecian shores and into the Aegean, rising again in Central Greece and from there directly to Sicily, where t heads north into Gaul. There is a Gallo-Roman and Sarmatian circulation route for J2-M172, returning it back into Med, quite possibly via The Aquitaine, Tuscany, Trans-Carpathia into the Alps. Shows up in The Elliot and Robson Clans. Robert DeBrus declared a Scythain heritage even though he was Anglo-Norman, which evinces Black Sea colonization. If anyone's playing "follow the Jew," there is some intersting stuff about the Cohens. And it's no different for Sephards, being genetic descendants of the peoples of the geograpical region of Ur. The line itself is fairly new not just in Europe, but across Eurasia according to The Genographic Project. It extends into the Brahmin castes in India, specifically the subcaste that worships Krishna. Wherever it has settled we see civilization, according the GP. Try it out on www.ysearch.org/search_start.asp?uid=J2-M172 Men, UNITE!
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Post by annienormanna on Jan 10, 2006 22:14:30 GMT -5
Oh yeah. I forgot to mention William deAliot. He came to Sicily a couple years before the Norman Invasions. One of the leaders of 5000 Norman Knights. His name lives on in Sicily, Normandy(Aliot), and the Eliots of Cornwall. Oh- here's a little British history about the Port of Eliot: www.roman-britain.org/places/ictis.htmAnd isn't it so amazing that Israel's Red Sea port is Eilat? You'd almost think it was some sort of conspiracy!
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Post by annienormanna on Jan 10, 2006 22:57:12 GMT -5
ooh: Port of Eliot is ICTIS INSVLA Romano-British Port St. Michael's Mount, Marazion, Cornwall
Mara Zion.
The Sea of Zion. Only God knows and he works for Mossad these days.
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Post by annienormanna on Jan 10, 2006 22:58:47 GMT -5
Hows that so far, Funk Monk? See Joe's Garage for details.
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Post by Yankel on Jan 11, 2006 21:09:57 GMT -5
The other decisive variable was eu10, which is found in high ferquencies among Arab populations and in low frequencies among Mediterranean, Jewish and northern Near Eastern populations. This caused Sephardim (of which a significant minority belong to hg r1b, an Iberian/Western Mediterranean haplogroup) to group with Sicilians and Cypriots in the Central-East Mediterranean category.
Almost all Djerba and Ashkenazi Jewish Y-chromosomes are Near Eastern, so they clustered most closely to Arab groups.
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Post by Digenes on Jan 13, 2006 16:36:52 GMT -5
Let me get this straight: Greek Cypriots cluster closer to the Near East than Sephardic Jews? hmm genetics can be surprising. even ashkenazis were more near eastern Genetics can be surprising indeed sometimes but in the case of Cyprus at least, I don`t think it should happen so, unless one does not bother to take into consideration a few basic historical facts and first of all to consult a map regularly... So, middle eastern influence on Cyprus dates back to the Phoenicians` era and probably even earlier but it has been going on as well for centuries, down to the years of the Ottoman conquest. Check out these links for some info on the Maronite population of Cyprus: www.mari.org/JMS/july98/A_Reading_in_the_History.htmwww.cyprus.gov.cy/cyphome/govhome.nsf/0/4A39EAF9EAC8E0A6C2256FC8003AED31?OpenDocument&languageNo=1
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