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Post by Melnorme on Jun 18, 2004 10:19:40 GMT -5
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Afro
Full Member
Posts: 248
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Post by Afro on Jun 18, 2004 12:15:29 GMT -5
Thank you for this chart.
So Melnourne, to you , all of these genetic differences in your eyes are what constitute as separate races???
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Post by Melnorme on Jun 18, 2004 12:33:50 GMT -5
Thank you for this chart. So Melnourne, to you , all of these genetic differences in your eyes are what constitute as separate races??? Not necessarily. There's the matter of E3b1 which is supposedly East African in origin, and yet populations that have it in high frequencies ( such as Greeks ) are clearly not exactly 'part-East African'.
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Afro
Full Member
Posts: 248
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Post by Afro on Jun 18, 2004 21:32:16 GMT -5
Hey Melnorme you think you could post up a chart like this one that focuses more on the relationship between North African Arabs (Bedoins?), Berbers, and Meds (Southern Italians and Greeks more importantly).
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Post by Melnorme on Jun 18, 2004 22:30:39 GMT -5
Hey Melnorme you think you could post up a chart like this one that focuses more on the relationship between North African Arabs (Bedoins?), Berbers, and Meds (Southern Italians and Greeks more importantly). I'll see what I can find...later.
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Post by Agrippa on Jun 19, 2004 10:37:18 GMT -5
Looks like the "green type", E3a is exclusively Negrid?
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Post by Melnorme on Jun 19, 2004 10:42:56 GMT -5
Looks like the "green type", E3a is exclusively Negrid? Yes. It's said to be associated with Bantus, in fact.
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Post by Melnorme on Jun 19, 2004 11:10:58 GMT -5
From here : hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/AJHG_2004_v74_p1023-1034.pdfIt's possible that future research will sort out the somewhat strange dual East-African/West-Eurasian affinities of the E haplogroup ( notably, the E-M35 mutation and its derived E-M78 mutation ). Until then, we might assume that some kind of 'proto-Caucasoid' type was migrating out of East Africa as recently as 15k years ago(!) And the more easily understandable Middle Eastern J, although it too has its odd variants. A request : If you reply to this, please take the images out of the quote.
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Post by Graeme on Jun 19, 2004 13:14:01 GMT -5
I have to tell you Melnorme those pdf files bugger up my computer.
What I want to know is do you agree with the conclusions of the study. For instance, the many "Neolithic" waves from the Middle East, some starting before wheat based agriculture in the Fertile Crescent, J-M172, J-M267, E-M78 and E-M123. Or the suffusion of men from Arabia to North Africa, J-M267. The J-M102 is stated as coming from the South Balkans, but there is a centre in India; J-M92 centres in India also. What do you make of that? Indo-Europeans?
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Post by Melnorme on Jun 19, 2004 13:34:56 GMT -5
I have to tell you Melnorme those pdf files bugger up my computer. What version of Acrobat Reader do you have? 5 caused lots of problems, 6 is better. Agree? I don't know. Like I said, more work may be needed to discover the true origins of some of these lineages, particularly in regards to the E's. For now, this what we have. Remember that some haplogroups may have arisen at a particular date, but only spread to Europe ( or any other region ) much later. Yes, I noticed that. These mutations date from around 8,000 years ago...again, a differentiation may be discovered in the future. They're rather minor, anyway.
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Post by Graeme on Jun 19, 2004 13:49:46 GMT -5
I have version 6.0.
So do you think that there are secondary centres where the haplogroups took off as in J-M102 and J-M92 say be natural selection or conditions conducive to agriculture in these other centres?
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Post by Melnorme on Jun 19, 2004 13:56:57 GMT -5
I have version 6.0. So do you think that there are secondary centres where the haplogroups took off as in J-M102 and J-M92 say be natural selection or conditions conducive to agriculture in these other centres? Here's what the study says : ( M67 and M12 are ancestral mutations to M92 and M102, respectively ) In other words, they have no idea.
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Afro
Full Member
Posts: 248
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Post by Afro on Jun 19, 2004 16:58:41 GMT -5
Thanks for the charts Melnorme. So its pretty safe to say that genetically Souther Europeans are about as far away from Middle Eastern types as they could get??? That fool Abdul was at it again trying to say they had mixed together...
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Post by Melnorme on Jun 19, 2004 17:39:45 GMT -5
Thanks for the charts Melnorme. So its pretty safe to say that genetically Souther Europeans are about as far away from Middle Eastern types as they could get??? That fool Abdul was at it again trying to say they had mixed together... Southern Europeans - or more accurately, Southeast Europeans - have more Middle Eastern ancestry by far than other Europeans ( as evidenced by the J-M172 mutation, for example ), but as far as anyone can tell, it's all prehistoric. There is no evidence of massive amounts of 'Semites' darkening Italy in the past 2000 years, and other such perverted Abdul fantasies. ;D Another of Abdul's assertions is that prehistoric Western Europe, notably Spain, was originally ( and still is ) populated by 'Berbers'. As you can see, whatever prehistoric North African ancestry Europeans have is, again, concentrated mostly in the Southeast - although Iberians do have smidgeons of recent North African admixture ( E-M81 ).
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Post by Agrippa on Jun 19, 2004 18:21:05 GMT -5
Seems to be quite unlikely because the most studies speak about a much longer time, although it might be possible that there were more than one waves of "Protoeuropids" or mixture in East Africa what seems to be the most likely hypothesis.
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