What do you think of Hezbollah?

[Yankel]

wadaad said:

Am I mistaken or do they not only target the Israeli Defense Force and not civilian targets, while Israelis routinely bulldoze refugee camps?

Did you read any of the posts on page 2? Hezbollah has been linked to several acts of terrorism outside of the Middle East, including the bombing a Jewish community center in Argentina.

And since when do Israelis routinely bulldoze refugee camps? They raze the homes of terrorists and houses illegally built. Of course, they got rid of this policy shortly after the Sharm El-Sheikh summit.

[Wadaad]

I am very skeptical of any links to Hezbollah regarding the Argentine attack.

[Yankel]

k5125 said:

I don't get why Arabs are outnumbering Jews. Because supposedly over half of Israelis are Sephardic and the Sephardic families apparently have like 10 or more kids usually just like arabs do.

Palestinian Arab couples have, like, 7 children, on average. They look at having children as part of the "intifada". At least that's what my Arab friends tell me.

It seems to be only ashkenazis who are now a minority in Israel that have the least amount of children. This is typical of us, I don't know why.

Frum Ashkenazim average about 4-5 children per couple. Sephardi Jews probably average the same.

[Yankel]

wadaad said:

I am very skeptical of any links to Hezbollah regarding the Argentine attack.

Which one? There's the Israeli embassy attack, which killed 29 people, and then there's the community center (AMIA) attack, which killed 86 people. And what about all the other incidents they've been linked to?

[Drooperdoo]

A British member of MI5 says that Israel blew up its own embassy in order to frame Arabs--something disturbingly similar to alleged acts of anti-Semitism in Europe recently where Jews themselves were caught red-handed burning down their own property (with the intent to frame Muslims).
It's the boy-who-cried-wolf syndrome. It gets harder and harder to see them as victims when they keep getting caught creating crimes designed to cast them as innocent victims.
So when is it real? --When is it not?
The objective outsider grows ever more cynical.

[Wadaad]

Palestinian Arab couples have, like, 7 children, on average. They look at having children as part of the "intifada".

lol no, they see children as a blessing, actually...please stop making everything be about the Jews, do Palestinians sneezing a certain way mean they seek the destruction of Jews as well?

It's the boy-who-cried-wolf syndrome. It gets harder and harder to see them as victims when they keep getting caught creating crimes designed to cast them as innocent victims.
So when is it real? --When is it not?
The objective outsider grows ever more cynical.

bingo

[Yankel]

wadaad said:

lol no, they see children as a blessing, actually...

They see children as a blessing? No shit. A very good friend of mine, who happens to be a Palestinian Arab, told me that there are extremely high birthrates in Palestinian refugee camps because UNWRA counts the descendants of the initial refugees as refugees. There are something like 200,000 actual refugees left, yet millions and millions are supposed to be allowed to 'return' to Israel.

please stop making everything be about the Jews, do Palestinians sneezing a certain way mean they seek the destruction of Jews as well?

I've got a victim complex because I pointed out that Hezbollah is terrorist group? Err, aren't we supposed to be discussing Hezbollah's legitimacy? Get back to me on that one.

[Yankel]

drooperdoo said:

A British member of MI5 says that Israel blew up its own embassy in order to frame Arabs--something disturbingly similar to alleged acts of anti-Semitism in Europe recently where Jews themselves were caught red-handed burning down their own property (with the intent to frame Muslims).

Right. And the World Health Organization is trying to wipe out all of sub-Saharan Africa with HIV. And Tupac Shakur was murdered by the FBI. Or, uh, he's still alive, or something... That routine might work well at whatreallyhappened.com, but I refuse to be part of your deluded conspiracy world.

It's the boy-who-cried-wolf syndrome. It gets harder and harder to see them as victims when they keep getting caught creating crimes designed to cast them as innocent victims.

Frankly, I don't see how one incident negates hundreds. I guess conspiracy nuts favor dramatic plot twists over logic. Makes sense.

So when is it real? --When is it not?
The objective outsider grows ever more cynical.

Objective my foot! You yourself admitted being a borderline anti-Semite.

[Drooperdoo]

Flowin Prose,
ONE incident??? --ONE?
A rabbi in Hunagria was indicted for burning down his own synagogue. Apparently, he wanted to frame Arabs while collecting insurance money.
Then there was the woman who claimed she was beat up by a gang of Muslims in a subway--and it turned out, the subway had cameras. There *was* no attack. She had made the whole thing up. [It caused a scandal in Paris.]
Then another allegedly anti-semitic desecration of a Jewish temple took place in France a month later--and was discovered to have been perpetrated by a Jewish kid.
That's three phony incidents in just a six month time-frame!

Aside from Israel blowing up its own embassy--according to British intelligence to frame Arabs--in 1953 the Lavon Affair was a diplomatic disaster. Jews tried to blow up the US embassy in Egypt in the attempt to frame Arabs and get the US to fight Israel's enemies.
It was a huge embarrassment when it was discovered the so-called Arabs were actually Egyptian Jews, and the scandal led all the way up to the humiliation of Israel's Prime Minister.
Then--according to former Mossad agent Victor Ostrovsky--the bombing of a German disco in the 1989 to frame the Libyans [and which resulted in a US retaliation against Libya] was actually--once again--conducted by the Mossad. They killed US servicemen to frame Arabs and get America [once again] to fight Israel's enemies.

With this track record, it's no wonder that the world assumes that 9-11 was carried out by the Mossad. But it didn't look good when Israelis were arrested with thousands of dollars in cash and box cutters right across from the towers, filming the destruction with a video-camera and cheering.
They were arrested around 4:30 P.M. after having filmed the burning WTC from the roof of their company's building near Liberty State Park. They were spotted by a neighbor who called the police and the FBI. The police tracked them down in a van with the words "Urban Moving Systems" written on the side. [Bergen Record, 9/12/01, Ha'aretz, 9/17/01] One man was found with $4,700 in cash hidden in his sock, another had two passports on him, and box cutters were found in the van. [ABC News, 6/21/02] Investigators say that "There are maps of the city in the car with certain places highlighted... It looked like they're hooked in with this. It looked like they knew what was going to happen." [Bergen Record, 9/12/01] One of these Israelis later said, "Our purpose was to document the event." [ABC News, 6/21/02] The FBI later concluded at least two are Mossad agents and that all were on a Mossad surveillance mission. The FBI interrogated them for weeks. [Forward, 3/15/02] They were held on immigration violation charges and released 71 days later. [ABC News, 6/21/02] Their names were later identified as Sivan and Paul Kurzberg, Oded Ellner, Omer Marmari and Yaron Shmuel. [Forward, 3/15/02]

It's stuff like this--in combination with Israel's past habit of manufacturing terrorist incidents to frame Arabs--that makes reasonable people wonder.

P.S.--Before any moronic anti-Semites get hold of these very real incidents and twist them for their use--- The two biggest threats to world peace are the US and Britain. [They use Israel more than Israel uses them.] Israel is often hung out to dry and blamed for evils that the two larger countries. . . . That's why it's always important to discriminate between a nation and the men who run its intelligence services. Likewise, the American people weren't responsible in 1960 when the Joint Chiefs of Staff advanced a plan to Kennedy to kill Americans in fake terrorist attacks implicating Cuba. It was called Operation Northwoods and Kennedy rejected it--though it later came out due to the Freedom of Information Act and was reported on throughout the mainstream media in 2002.
So . . . the truth is: Nations *do* kill their own citizens to frame foreign governments. So if 9-11 really *was* a conspiracy, then I don't see why Israel need be involved. [Like all good foreign intelligence services, they could have known about it beforehand. But I don't think that implies guilt.] As Operation Northwoods shows, the US military industrial complex itself has a precedent for evil plans to fake terrorist attacks and to kill their own citizens.

[k5125]

Hezbollah also wants to transform Lebanon into an Islamic state like Iran. For a time they even enforced a strict Khomeini style dress code in certain areas. They have also kidnapped westerners.

I don't see how they are any different from Al-Qaeda whatsoever in terms of terrorism. In some ways US intelligence actually views Hezbollah as even more potentially dangerous than Al-Qaeda and Osama bin Laden.

[Yankel]

drooperdoo said:

Flowin Prose,
ONE incident??? --ONE?

Three? Three, out of hundreds annually. Oh, man, you got us! We use anti-Semitism as a vehicle to increase our political power. Thanks, Chomsky.

Aside from Israel blowing up its own embassy

This is unsubstantiated. If you're going to state it as fact, at least leave some citations. Restating your position doesn't accomplish anything new.

The truth is, the only connection between Israel and the attack is that their embassy was blown up.

--according to British intelligence to frame Arabs--in 1953 the Lavon Affair was a diplomatic disaster. Jews tried to blow up the US embassy in Egypt in the attempt to frame Arabs and get the US to fight Israel's enemies.

Actually, they planted bombs in the embassy and left evidence behind implicating Arabs. They didn't actually try to blow it up. Big difference.

But yeah, I'm familiar with the Lavon affair. I'm sure you include it in your anti-Israel rheotiric whenever the opportunity presents itself.

Also, it's interesting how ealier you stated that Israelis and Jews are not on interchangeable terms, yet clearly this only applies when convenient for you. It's probably hard to do when stringing together Israeli conspiracies and _three_ completely separate incidents as one, uniform Jewish plot.

Then--according to former Mossad agent Victor Ostrovsky--the bombing of a German disco in the 1989 to frame the Libyans [and which resulted in a US retaliation against Libya] was actually--once again--conducted by the Mossad. They killed US servicemen to frame Arabs and get America [once again] to fight Israel's enemies.

First of all, it was in 1986. Secondly, this is yet another unsubstantiated conspiracy theory that you present as factual. And please, start leaving sources.

With this track record, it's no wonder that the world assumes that 9-11 was carried out by the Mossad.

What? The world? More like a fringe minority, i.e. conspiracy geeks. There are people who believe Iraq had something to do with it, but Israel? Only anti-Zionists.

But it didn't look good when Israelis were arrested with thousands of dollars in cash and box cutters right across from the towers, filming the destruction with a video-camera and cheering.
They were arrested around 4:30 P.M. after having filmed the burning WTC from the roof of their company's building near Liberty State Park. They were spotted by a neighbor who called the police and the FBI. The police tracked them down in a van with the words "Urban Moving Systems" written on the side. [Bergen Record, 9/12/01, Ha'aretz, 9/17/01]

Do you have a link? I'm talking about the ha'artez story, not a whatreallyhappened.com article.

The two biggest threats to world peace are the US and Britain.

You are nuts. Seriously. All those whacky posts in the human biodiversity section... It's all starting to make sense to me...

[Drooperdoo]

Flowin Prose,
After the mention of former Mossad agent Victor Ostrovsky saying that the Mossad pulled off the German discoteque bombings [to frame Libya] you said, "And please leave sources".
The whole reason I mentioned Ostrovsky is because he's the source!
Read his book "By Way of Deception". It's all about his career in the Mossad. He's a patriotic Israeli. So the source isn't some Arab, or neo-Nazi or antisemite.
It's a book by a man who believes in Israel and in civic responsibility. That said, he felt he HAD to write the book to show how the Mossad has taken over and subverted Israeli politics and threatened democracy in the country.
To point out the circumstance of out-of-control intelligence services is no more "antisemitic" than pointing out the fact that the FBI under J. Edgar Hoover was corrupt.
To state that isn't anyone's endorsement of "rounding up all Americans and killing them". But when one states the same thing about the Mossad, the conditioned response is: "You're only saying that . . . er . . .uh . .. because you want all Jews dead!"
That's just irrational.

I also left a ton of sources in the post with regard to the Israeli "art students" on 9-11. Even Fox News did a special on the "art students". Fox News!!!
So it's not a left-wing conspiracy theory.
Douglas Fieth--one of the top neocons--just resigned his job because of the scandal about his passing on secrets to Israel. This story is unfolding as we speak.
So these aren't the delusions of "evil antisemites" out to getcha.

The truth is that governments stink. They're filled with evil, corrupt, murderous men. And all good patriots must stand up to these creeps--whether the men are Israeli [like Ostrovsky], American, British, Chinese, etc.
Because the truth is: All of these countries are out of control--and the world knows it.

P.S.--Yes, you're right: I think the British Empire was evil. And I believe that the US slid over to the dark side when they inherited the mantel of the old British Empire. I believe in democracy--not empire. I don't believe that one nation has a right to disrespect another nation's sovereignty. All nations should be equal and respected. Not one bullying others--imposing ITS ideas and customs on others. That's why I'm also against Islam. And why I believe in Israel. [The aspiration for a people to have a state is the democratic aspiration for a people to have self-determination.] So Jews sick and tired of "living in other peoples' countries" [as one Jewish journalist put it] is a good thing. So if you believe I'm "bad" for having an aversion to Americans forcing their culture on Iraqis, then I'll admit it: I'm bad. --I don't believe America has a right to force its culture on anyone any more than the Taliban had a right to force women to wear burkhas. Both are evil and chauvinistic systems.

[Wadaad]

whats so crazy about thinking the British empire and neo-imperialistic USA do more harm than good for the world? They arent Islamo-fanatics I give you that but there are enough arguments supporting this notion that would fill up a new thread with 20+ pages of discussions

[Yankel]

I don't think you're an anti-Semite, but you can't expect me to take everything you write at face value. Context is important.

e.g.

drooperdoo said:

I also left a ton of sources in the post with regard to the Israeli "art students" on 9-11. Even Fox News did a special on the "art students". Fox News!!!

Those Israelis were investigated. Guess what? It was concluded that they had nothing to do with 9/11. But, you didn't include that in your post.

whats so crazy about thinking the British empire and neo-imperialistic USA do more harm than good for the world?

Maybe because the British Empire doesn't exist anymore?

[marduk1]

I'll believe that Flowin' Prose has any "Arab friends" the day that I actually see a pig fly.

The zhids are just pissed that Hezbollah drove their filthy hides out of Lebanon, end of story. Not before they murdered at least 17,000 Lebanese civilians.

And I guess now they're pissed 'cause Hezbollah has done better in these elections than in any previous election -- despite all of that "foreign"-funded "Cedar Revolution" crap. Even the Maronite/Phalangist scum didn't vote the way they were "supposed" to. Aoun was hardly U.ncle S.hlomo's candidate of choice.

"How can you defeat that which finds
Nourishment in your attack?
How can you kill that which
Finds sanctuary in your blade?
How can you hinder that which
Embraces the strategies against it?
You can take nothing from not"

Hezb faqat Hezbollah, rahbar faqat Ruhollah.