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Post by Satyros on Dec 5, 2004 18:31:01 GMT -5
Satyros, you really love polls, don't you?  . You got me there! I do!! "No" is NOT an option!!! Yes this very convenient in some cases, but actually a country are its people, the people is their country. Who is to blame if not for the people of the country? Should we blame the trees of the country? Or the f*cking cars? No, its the people that shape the country. Its the majority that creates decisions. For the minority, well, sorry, but they should be more careful in the way they let the majority run things  |
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Post by Italian Stallion on Dec 5, 2004 20:59:50 GMT -5
According to philosophy: (1) if a 'just war' can be justified, so too can terrorism be justified as 'unconventional warfare.' (2) if no war can be justified, than terrorism cannot be either. Unfortunately, I'm afraid conclusion (1) is the prevailing norm. You just blew my mind! |
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Post by Anja on Dec 12, 2004 18:06:56 GMT -5
that's pretty crappy satyros...that's pretty crappy.  |
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Post by Satyros on Dec 14, 2004 8:35:59 GMT -5
that's pretty crappy satyros...that's pretty crappy. What do you mean? You have an objection? |
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Post by Solomon on Dec 15, 2004 13:10:12 GMT -5
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Post by Satyros on Dec 15, 2004 19:31:46 GMT -5
Whether you agree with the war or not, we are kicking some serious ass. Is that so, Jew? |
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Post by k5125 on Jan 4, 2005 23:32:17 GMT -5
I think the Bush administration could have handled the aftermath of this war better, but I agree that Saddam had to go, and the only way was through war unfortunately. We tried diplomacy for over a decade.
Its a big, god awful bloody mess, and I hate it, but there are a lot of brave soldiers over there doing the right thing helping those Iraqis, and fighting terrorism.
I respect them completely and what they are fighting for.
These terrorists aren't defending their country. They are just blowing up native Iraqis and blowing up some US soldiers who are trying to stabilize the country. Seriously, they are getting blown up just for building schools, providing food and healthcare. Its complete bull.
And half of these fighters are from Syria and Iran, not even from Iraq. I can't believe Michael Moore called these foreign terrorists "freedom fighters for the revolution". Well, actually, I can believe it, but its really sick.
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Post by Josh on Jan 5, 2005 1:43:31 GMT -5
Yes this very convenient in some cases, but actually a country are its people, the people is their country. Who is to blame if not for the people of the country? Should we blame the trees of the country? Or the f*cking cars? No, its the people that shape the country. Its the majority that creates decisions. For the minority, well, sorry, but they should be more careful in the way they let the majority run things That would be true if a large majority of the people voted for the same candidate, but generally in the US, the winning candidate has near 50% of the votes. That means that about half of the US agrees with the president but the other half disagrees. |
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Post by geirr on Jan 5, 2005 4:18:16 GMT -5
I can't believe Michael Moore called these foreign terrorists "freedom fighters for the revolution". Well, actually, I can believe it, but its really sick. That's one hell of a misquote there K, you obviously don't like this guy and power to you but I think it would be fairer for everyone that you quote people verbatim rather than use artistic license. |
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Post by k5125 on Jan 5, 2005 12:07:46 GMT -5
"The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not "insurgents" or "terrorists" or "The Enemy." They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow -- and they will win. Get it, Mr. Bush? You closed down a friggin' weekly newspaper, you great giver of freedom and democracy! Then all hell broke loose. The paper only had 10,000 readers! Why are you smirking?" www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?messageDate=2004-04-14 |
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Post by geirr on Jan 5, 2005 19:10:55 GMT -5
"The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not "insurgents" or "terrorists" or "The Enemy." They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow -- and they will win. Get it, Mr. Bush? You closed down a friggin' weekly newspaper, you great giver of freedom and democracy! Then all hell broke loose. The paper only had 10,000 readers! Why are you smirking?" www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?messageDate=2004-04-14Yeah that's what I read but he isn't talking about foreign terrorists but rather Iraqis who are against the occupation and particularly against large corporations making billions from their misery, when that was written last April the US government was referring to these people as 'insurgents', 'terrorists' and the 'enemy' which they are not. They were Iraqi people (normal people) who wanted their country back and for the Americans to go home as soon as possible, it is their country remember. He isn't talking about the terrorists linked to Al Qaeda killing your soldiers and beheading foreigners, the article is about as he put's it, "the Orwellian language" your government is using to vilify anyone opposed to it. By the way, I didn't want to link to Michael Moore's actual site because I think he get's enough free promotion.  |
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Post by k5125 on Jan 5, 2005 20:24:05 GMT -5
Well, to me it sounded like he was referring to the guys that dragged US soldiers' charred bodies through the streets. Maybe I am wrong. But thats how I interpreted it.
I mean seriously, what else could he mean when he calls them freedom fighters for the "revolution"?
What other "revolution" could he be referring to besides the constant blasting and bombing of US soldiers and civilian targets?
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Post by Brasidas on Jan 30, 2005 19:26:33 GMT -5
Those people dragging U.S bodies throught the streets "ARE IRAQIS" The reason they don't like us over there is because their lives are actually worse now than they were 2 years ago. On a good day in Bahgad they get 4 hours of Electricity, before they had power all day long. They also had running water all day long. Today 2 years later most people still don't have runnign water or electricity. If Bush really went over there to free the Iraqi people from Saddam, then the thing he should have focuse on was the "Infrastructure". Instead what he focused on was protecting the oil ministry and the pipelines, nothing else. He didn't even try to protect the munition dumps, where the insurgents have recieved most of their weapons from. The war had NOTHING to do with freedom, it had to do with oil and Multi-national Corporations.
Next, do you know that the U.S has killed more Iraqi "Civilians" in the past 2 years than Saddam did in 30 years?? Peoples lives in Iraq are not staying bad because of the "foreign" element in Iraq, but because Bush doesn't care and his non-existing plan for occupation.
People see the U.S as Satan because of the Corporations and the governments attitude of "who gives a sh** what other people think!" This is an attitude originally attributed to the British Empire, when they felt it was their duty to subdue and control other people. The U.S has caused most of the problems in the Middle and Near East. We are the ones who armed and trained Ossama, we are the ones who helped ensure Saddam stayed in power and we are the ones who armed him to fight the "evil" Iranian Ayatolah. The past policies of the U.S have come back to bite us in the A**. But do we learn from our mistakes? NO! Instead Bush decides he is going to attack Iraq, even though more than 90% of the world opposed it. Now keep in mind, it isn't that people thought Saddam should stay in power or that he was a nice guy, but because they didn't believe what the U.S government was claiming. Collin Powell lied to the U.N(using a plagarized Master Thesis from 1993). They lied saying that Iraq was trying to buy Nuclear components from Africa and they lied about the "Intelligence" that said Saddam was still making chemical and Biological weapons. As we now know these have been found to all be false.
Next, Bush didn't give a dang if the Resolutions that were imposed on Iraq were U.N resolutions, he didn't even care if he broke international laws(which the U.S helped create). He had planned to attack Iraq from the beginning. He only used 9/11 as an excuse. The interesting thing is almost everyone supported the U.S attacking Afghanistan to eliminate the Taliban and to attack Al-Qaida. But why was that?? It was because they were the ones involved with 9/11. There is also no reason why Bush couldn't have waited a few more months, to let the inspectors do their jobs.(Which was obviously working). If he waited though, he knows he would have been proven wrong, and he would have never had the power in the U.S to attack Iraq. I believe he did it because he didn't want to have to focus on serious issues like the economy or health care and to make a name for himself in American History and politics. Think about this, if he didn't have a war he would have been "just another president", but now he will always be remembered, wether good or bad!! His dad had the "Gulf War" and Clinton had a "great prosperous economy", what would he have had? He would have been the president that allowed 9/11 to happen. What a great legend to have. But now that he has gotten us in a war people will not think of him in that way.
From the beginning Bush had tried to tie in Iraq with 9/11 and a lot of Americans believed him. But Iraq had absolutely no connection with Al-Qaida. Saddam and Iraq was a secularist nation while Al-Qaida was a fundamentalist religious organization. Bin-Laden disliked Saddam because of this.
Next, it was the U.S invasion of Iraq that allowed the "Foreign" elements to infultrate Iraq and attack the U.S and British soldiers. They were the ones that did nothing to secure the borders. This invasion allowed the Terrorist element to occur in Iraq. Before that there was no Terrorist element.
Next, the U.S troops are not terrorist, they are only doing what they are told, if they didn't then they would be imprisoned. So to compare them with Al-Qaida is completely wrong. Al-Qaida and other extremist groups do their deeds because of ideology, while there are some U.S troops who do it for the same reason, the majority don't. There are many who don't even support the war, but they do it out of Duty(not neccessarily for the country) but for their friends and fellow soldiers. Many U.S soldiers go there because they 'really' want to help rebuild Iraq, but unfortunatly their Commander and Chief(President) doesn't consider that a priority. If people want to put down the U.S, put down the people who make the policies, not the people who take orders.
I would like to say one final thing. Not all American agree with the current administration or even supported the war. I know at one time their were more than 20 million Americans who protested to keep the war from happening. And during the last election there were more than 50 million voters who voted against Bush. So please don't hate all American, but their governments policies.
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Post by Italian Stallion on Jan 31, 2005 20:03:38 GMT -5
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Post by Elistariel on Feb 2, 2005 4:28:42 GMT -5
I refuse to vote in this one sided poll.
I also refuse to vote because the media only paints a small picture of the reality. Until we get off our asses and go to Iraq ourselves and learn their culture, we have little right to say what should or shouldn't be done.
I'm also pagan, I don't believe in Satan. Evil doesn't need a figure to blame, it's all around.
Also a pentagram isn't necessarily a satanic symbol. That is a misconception. Satanics DO use pentagrams, obviously, but they stole them from pagans.
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