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Post by Satyros on Dec 5, 2004 1:00:12 GMT -5
!!!
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Post by alex221166 on Dec 5, 2004 3:56:36 GMT -5
I would say that it depends on what your idea of hell is. In my opinion, they are being led by an idiot who is actually doing the right thing. On the other hand, we Europeans are led by idiots who usually try all the wrong possibilities before they get it right.
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Post by MC anunnaki on Dec 5, 2004 5:25:57 GMT -5
Satyros, you really love polls, don't you?  I miss the option 'no'! A country and it's people have often very little to say in what the government does, even if it is a democracy.
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lamda
Junior Member
Use the source Luke! Use the source!
Posts: 79
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Post by lamda on Dec 5, 2004 8:43:46 GMT -5
Satyros, you really love polls, don't you? I miss the option 'no'! A country and it's people have often very little to say in what the government does, even if it is a democracy. Who said we live in a democracy? Oh I forgot, sorry. Politicians... |
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Post by Italian Stallion on Dec 5, 2004 9:24:54 GMT -5
Many Dubious reasons for going into Iraq, which I won't mention here.
But, it angers me when I hear peaceniks screaming that america is evil and should get outta iraq.
Firstly, that would be irresponsible, it would give that country to Terrorists, and how would that benefit the population.
Secondly, these peace activists are totally misguided. Why aren't they taking to the streets and protesting against the rebels and insurrgents. If they all laid down their arms, Iraq would return to the relative prosperity it had back in the early 80's before the iran-iraq war.
My thought, is that Blaming America nowadays is the politically correct thing to do. Can't blame rebel arabs and muslims, because that would be rascist. Blame a white man instead.
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lamda
Junior Member
Use the source Luke! Use the source!
Posts: 79
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Post by lamda on Dec 5, 2004 9:32:35 GMT -5
Why of course. Iraqis are all terrorists and should be exterminated.
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Post by Italian Stallion on Dec 5, 2004 10:05:23 GMT -5
Why of course. Iraqis are all terrorists and should be exterminated. See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Non-sensical remarks which distort the actual message. There is no doubt that there are Foreign Terrorists in Iraq, along with some brainwashed Sunnis and Shia. they are the ones causing problems.... not the rest of the population. |
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lamda
Junior Member
Use the source Luke! Use the source!
Posts: 79
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Post by lamda on Dec 5, 2004 10:44:18 GMT -5
See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Non-sensical remarks which distort the actual message. There is no doubt that there are Foreign Terrorists in Iraq, along with some brainwashed Sunnis and Shia. they are the ones causing problems.... not the rest of the population. So what you meant is that a foreigner terrorist group will take control of Iraq. I didn't distort the actual message at all. Try to realize what you implied by your "oh no, if americans leave then terrorism will take over" and then make remarks about someone commenting on them. See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Non-sensical remarks which distort the actual situation in Iraq. Right now, foreign terrorists have taken over. If you haven't guessed their nationality yet, they are the Americans. www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=terroristEU legislation has this definition for terrorism: "Terrorism is a deliberate attack by an individual or a group against a country, its institutions or its people with the aim of intimidating them and damaging or destroying their political, economic or social structures." So, what are U.S forces still doing in Iraq? By definition, terrorist acts. And as a side note, I'm not a peacenik. Retired from armed forces a few years ago. Tired of being a pawn in the hands of brainless morons. |
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Post by Melnorme on Dec 5, 2004 10:47:29 GMT -5
Uh, but the 'terrorists' succeeded when they toppled Saddam's regime. Now they're just milling about getting shot at, not destroying any political structure.
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Post by Italian Stallion on Dec 5, 2004 10:54:28 GMT -5
EU legislation has this definition for terrorism: "Terrorism is a deliberate attack by an individual or a group against a country, its institutions or its people with the aim of intimidating them and damaging or destroying their political, economic or social structures." So, what are U.S forces still doing in Iraq? By definition, terrorist acts. Sigh...sure... they have nothing better to do then harass the general population into not liking them. That makes perfect sense. |
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Post by Italian Stallion on Dec 5, 2004 11:30:30 GMT -5
Furthermore... I DO believe that the Americans are far from carrying out an effective campaign. And like I said, their reasons for going in were somewhat dubious.... but we live in an Imperfect world, with imperfect solutions. It is not in the Americans best interest to kill innocent civilians and get the general population against them. It is in their interest to restore the Peace, and get the Oil flowing for everyone to get rich on. It makes no sense to say that the americans want to kill as many civilians as possible.
The rebels are weak militarily, but have a strong will; The Americans are strong militarily, but have a weak will.
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lamda
Junior Member
Use the source Luke! Use the source!
Posts: 79
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Post by lamda on Dec 5, 2004 13:12:31 GMT -5
Who said they care about what the general population thinks of them? Their actions can only justify this.
Perfectly agree in everything you just said except maybe add a few things; It is not in their interest to kill innocent civilians, although they're very happy to do so and they do so if just one of them is possibly suspected to be a guerilla, or there have been hints for someone in the vicinity of that area. And they do not want to kill as many civilians as possible (well, at least when the effects of the drugs in the troops' food wear out). I don't believe they want to, and someone who does is a downright moron. My ironic comment "Iraqis are all terrorists and should be exterminated" was a comment to the approach "Americans must stay in Iraq because Iraqis are terrorists" which is very popular in Western countries these days and which of course you obviously do not believe, as you made clear you meant foreign terrorists.
Melnorme:
They're milling about getting shot at because they just refuse to leave Iraq on its own. The troops did what they thought was the right thing, now they should leave these people be. Saddam toppled, mission accomplished.
Since I presume you have a military experience (if I'm mistaken please accept my thousand apologies), I guess you should be the first to advocate that Saddam could have simply been put "on ice" with a team of 3 to 5 special ops instead of leaving Baghdad a wreck of a city. I really, really don't like to accuse the Americans, but they have scared the hell out of these people and multiplied muslim hatred (and maybe this is an understatement) towards the western world. A bit controversial, but that is exactly what Osama wanted. More recruits...
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Post by Melnorme on Dec 5, 2004 13:24:32 GMT -5
They're milling about getting shot at because they just refuse to leave Iraq on its own. The troops did what they thought was the right thing, now they should leave these people be. Saddam toppled, mission accomplished. Since I presume you have a military experience (if I'm mistaken please accept my thousand apologies), I guess you should be the first to advocate that Saddam could have simply been put "on ice" with a team of 3 to 5 special ops instead of leaving Baghdad a wreck of a city. I really, really don't like to accuse the Americans, but they have scared the hell out of these people and multiplied muslim hatred (and maybe this is an understatement) towards the western world. A bit controversial, but that is exactly what Osama wanted. More recruits... Not much arguments with you here. I just don't like it when soldiers are called 'terrorists', it's cheap sophistry and nobody really believes it. |
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Post by nordicyouth on Dec 5, 2004 16:21:02 GMT -5
It's a bizzare question. The people controlling the United States believe in one God combining both good and evil --> Lucifer (light)/Satan (dark).
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Post by nordicyouth on Dec 5, 2004 16:34:46 GMT -5
According to philosophy:
(1) if a 'just war' can be justified, so too can terrorism be justified as 'unconventional warfare.'
(2) if no war can be justified, than terrorism cannot be either.
Unfortunately, I'm afraid conclusion (1) is the prevailing norm.
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