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Post by nordicyouth on Jun 13, 2004 8:11:10 GMT -5
I think it's amusing that Muslims want Western nations to tolerate their dress and customs when they're way of life is religiously and culturally totalitarian.
It is like a Communist escaping over the wall to live the good life in the West and then touting a Red Army flag and wearing insignia on his lapels. Or a Nazi wanting to live in Israel and display the Swastika. To many peoples the hammer and sicle and swastika are terrible symbols of oppression and pain, also to many intellectual liberals fleeing the middle east e.g. from Iran.
Sure, Christian fundamentalism does exist in the West, but it certainly does not appear as openly as that of Islam. Also, I remind all that the West does have a CHRISTIAN background - Judeo-Christianity is part of Western culture.
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Post by Springa on Jun 13, 2004 10:39:20 GMT -5
It's actually permitted and pretty common for people all over the democratic capitalist world to publicly display their communist predilections. Except for the United States, maybe, you'll see t-shirts, posters and all kinds of stuff with the hammer & sickle in it. Just go to an university or something. If someone touted a red army flag around in Europe or latin America, nobody would care very much. Maybe they'd think the guy was some kind of nutcase. In the US, however, he could have problems with the F.B.I.... It is like a Communist escaping over the wall to live the good life in the West and then touting a Red Army flag and wearing insignia on his lapels. |
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Post by nordicyouth on Jun 13, 2004 16:13:29 GMT -5
Oh yes, I know it's permitted, but for many people of Eastern Europe and Central Asia the hammer and sicle and other Communist or Marxist-Leninist paraphenalia is a reminder of the ravages of at least half a century behind the iron curtain. Personally, I think both the swastika and the hammer and sicle should be banned, the latter more, as the former was found in a myriad of ancient cultures. Communist symbols are largely tolerated because so many students are convinced they can make Marxist principles work - then they join the rat race and snicker at those lazy Commie teens...  |
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Post by geirr on Jun 14, 2004 4:46:16 GMT -5
Sure, Christian fundamentalism does exist in the West, but it certainly does not appear as openly as that of Islam. Also, I remind all that the West does have a CHRISTIAN background - Judeo-Christianity is part of Western culture. That's incorrect. in the USA, Christian fundamentalists are pervasive throughout society including the government itself. Whether its murdering Doctors who perform abortions or trying to stop evolution being studied at school etc, much of this Americanism is finding it's way here and is clearly a threat to non religious people like myself. In the west Christian fundamentalists mainly from America are a greater threat to democracy. Australia is based on Christian principles (The Judeo bit is patronising) but unlike the USA there is a separation between church and state. |
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Post by nordicyouth on Jun 14, 2004 11:55:02 GMT -5
Of course American Christian fundamentalism is a threat to Western democracy, my point is that Christianity is an integral part of Western (European and derived from) culture. Think about all those religious structures throughout Europe - CHRISTIAN.
Christian fundamentalism is relatively recent (the Prostestant aspect), and reached fever pitch during the early part of the 20th century (esp. the 20s). But otherwise, Christianity is part of our past and our culture, whether we are religious or not...
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Sandwich
Full Member
La pens?e d'un homme est avant tout sa nostalgie
Posts: 208
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Post by Sandwich on Jun 15, 2004 22:20:01 GMT -5
Most religions are dumb as entrenched political ideology, yet can provide individual spiritual sustenance. Hinduism is far worse than Islam if you get to know it - in essence it's an enforced hereditary division of labour, in the 21st century, based on notions of other people as objects of defilement. A truly disgusting creed. Islam has a peculiar attitude to apostasy. Of course, Christians used to burn apostates, but they didn't claim scriptural authority for doing so. Many Muslim authorities, however, claim that the Koran demands death as the punishment for apostasy - although Mohammed does not say so in so many words. Anybody who takes this line should be brought to trial for incitement to murder - but I don't know what is actually taught about this in medressehs and mosques in Christian countries. I really feel sorry for Muslims worldwide, stuck with a creed that seeks to legislate so many different aspects of life. But the worst thing is that the rote learning of the Koran as a method of education rots the brain of Muslim children. It is exactly what a brain should not be taught to do.  |
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Post by Aria88 on Jun 15, 2004 22:51:32 GMT -5
All three "great" monotheistic creeds are equally mind-numbing to me. I do not think less of one because he is a Muslim. On the one hand, if I had to choose between Judaism, Christianity and Islam, I'd rather be the latter. I believe it's abomination to say that God has appeared in the flesh. Yes, the Christians stole the avatar idea from others, but I still find it ludicrous. The "seal of the prophets," yes, that, too, is chauvinistic.
For all my hatred of Catholicism, I yet appreciate the Trinity, a nice bit of paganism. Actually my strong dislike for RC (not the cola) is mostly directed at the personnel and politics of the church, not its doctrine (except for celibacy). Roman Caholicism has retained so much of pre-Christian religion that it is more covertly pagan than anything. Fundamentalists and Jehovah's Witnesses know this, though crazy they be.
All 3 monotheist religions acknowledge the Old Testament, and this I cannot do myself. I'm not saying that it really is the word of the Evil God, but it certainly appears that way to me. I am referring to the Manichaean twist to the story. Whenever "God" speaks in the OT, well, that's the bad God. The true mission of Jesus was to eradicate the old book and illuminate, as it were. Once again, I don't necessarily believe this. It simply sounds better than the mainstream interpretation.
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Post by Aria88 on Jun 15, 2004 22:55:12 GMT -5
BTW, if y'all want to talk about terrorism, there are plenty of Christian folks who practice it and many more who support it. I refer, of course, to the Irish Republican Army, killers of innocents. They are no better than the Muslim scum who do same.
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Post by kiengi on Jun 16, 2004 18:03:27 GMT -5
Well too bad the word protestant has connotation of IRA. And anytime anyone resort to violence, that defeats everything humankind stands for.
21st century, where individualism seems to triumphant in West -- "every man for himself" that capitalistic economics. So than the religion itself must be individualized. Thats basically Oneself and God, a personal god.
Someone said Buddhism is like Hand and everyother religion is like Fingers. A cool combination seems to be Christian-Buddhist with personal God. Make up your own religion. ;D
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Post by nordicyouth on Jun 16, 2004 18:14:03 GMT -5
Humankind may well indeed stand for violence looking at our actions as a whole historically. It is only recently that life has garnered special meaning and this comes at a time of overpopulation, and will have to change unless we want chaos and fighting over resources, etc. Sorry, but humans seem inherently prone to fighting, be that friendly competitition or bloodshed.
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Post by Aria88 on Jun 16, 2004 18:30:51 GMT -5
Well said, Emperor-and-King.
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Post by JuicyFruit on Apr 8, 2005 19:48:47 GMT -5
Its sad to see most of you don't know much if anything about Islam, but still have a lot to say. LOL
Why don't you get your knowledge from Muslims and instead you get your knowledge from non-Muslim sites?
There are plenty of good muslim internet sites out there.
Sounds weird? Look, if a non Christian wants to inform himself about Christianity, does he ask Christians or biased non-Christians, say Buddhist or Jews, about Christianity??? LOL
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Post by SensoUnico on Apr 9, 2005 6:02:08 GMT -5
How do you know that about the posters here? Is it not just your bias and irrationality towards Mohammadism? What makes a muslim? Knowledge of the Quran, following the precepts, accepting all the myths surrounding the life of Muhammad. There are other religion believers, and non believers in here who know the Quran backwards and upside down. What do you know about other religions except what Mohammadans have told you? Most Europeans whether Christian or non believers know about Hinduism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, Bahai, you name it. There are no barriers to learning the faiths of others in Europe or Christianity.
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Post by JuicyFruit on Apr 9, 2005 7:08:45 GMT -5
I have read their posts. Also I did not say ALL posters!
This is at least a very big exaggeration. In other words, it is an outright lie.
1. I have read books about other religions (christianity, hinduism, buddhism etc.)
2. The fact that you refer to Muslims always as "Mohammadans" shows me that you are ignorant of Islam and also you do it to insult Muslims, because this is a serious insult and surely you know that!
?? You didn't read and/or understand my post. Read again and try to understand.
Anyway, you are a waste of time because you are ignorant.
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Post by SensoUnico on Apr 9, 2005 7:44:19 GMT -5
I am entitled to use whatever name that has been used for your religion and its founder. Mohammadism is one of those names. Saracens is an old name for adherents to your religion. I do not have to use the names you approve or acknowledge that your religion is a valid one. If you can read, good one, most of your co religionists do not, they do not even understand Quranic Arabic. What is an insult is to commandeer Jesus and Mary and the old figures of Jewish lore as your own. The story of Ishmael and Abraham is pure plagiarism. In Christianity your lot are heretics which is worse than being pagans. Give us back what is ours: Jesus, Mary, Abraham, Moses, the joe you call Imran and invent your own prophets and do not steal others. I do not like your religion. Your religion does not belong in Europe.
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