Octavivs
Full Member
errare hvmanvm est, in errore perservare stvltvm
Posts: 100
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Post by Octavivs on May 27, 2004 16:57:53 GMT -5
I am different because I only want to deport (not exterminate) unassimilable and undesirable aliens. Every country on earth has the right to decide who gets in or out. Nothing extraordinary. Have you read the Auster piece? By the way, I am a Spaniard.  Gaza and West Banks are not Israeli territory. And Israel was created on Palestine. Who said that territory was Jewish? The Bible? There were people living there. We are not in the Great navigations times anymore. You are Spaniard? Who asked that? I am Catarinean Brazilian. And you thought I was German, as I see. |
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Post by geirr on May 28, 2004 0:39:02 GMT -5
geirr,concerning christianty, its more progressive than islam and also christians are more prone to let politics out of goverment.christians are also more accepting of "foreigners" and other religions (christians in this sense means "western countrys"). islamic countrys are not .am i not correct in this assumtion? by the way nice qoute! are you of portuguese ancestry? I'm born in Argentina of half Italian and Iberian (Spanish Basque and Portuguese) descent. So I have some Portuguese blood  I've lived in Australia all my life. I would say your assumption is true but I feel that Christian fundamentalism particularly of the US type is as extreme as Islamic fundamentalism. I would argue that American Christian fundamentalists are as much if not greater threat to democracy not just in the USA but in countries closely aligned to the USA like Australia and European nations. |
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Post by eufrenio on May 28, 2004 15:43:20 GMT -5
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Post by Graeme on May 31, 2004 8:54:27 GMT -5
Christian fundamentalists rant and rave, but so far they haven't gone into terrorism in a big way. Timothy McVeigh was a nutter wasn't he? Usually the fundamentalists try to use brainwashing and scare tactics to turn people over to them not bombs.
As for Islam, I despise it and its adherents. To be a muslim one must surrender to the will of Allah. Screw that. To me Islam = Haram. That is shit for you folks that do not understand Allah's "divine" language. Islam imposes a lot on its adherents particularly speaking Arabic at least for prayer. Frankly all languages including Arabic are derived from dust not any Allah. See what happened to Salman Rushie because of a book. That is insane. All that talk of martyrdom for killing strangers who haven't done anything to muslims is insane. In Australia very few muslims come out with solutions to the madrassas or militancy or even pronounce the lunatics apostate or not muslims but heretics. Osama bin Ladem is a good muslim. I actually think a good muslim is an oxymoron. There are parts of my city Sydney that I will never go to because of the presence of large numbers of muslims. They are unsavoury, dirty, primitive and obnoxious. They should all live in muslim countries not countries like Australia. Islam is inimical to civilisation like cannabalism and pederasty.
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Post by kiengi on Jun 8, 2004 1:03:04 GMT -5
My knowledge on Islam religion is limited. But in comparison to Christianity, I can point out a few things why the Muslim countries are far behind the Christian's.
During the 6th century when Islam was founded, at the time the middle east was at its Zenith of civilized world. But the Islam as religion didn't keep up with the time. Where as the Christian religion since Roman Constantine time when through rigorous challenges from the Society and Science. There the Christian religion changed with time to better suite to modernity.
One of the most significant reforms the Christianity made was the separation of church and state. Which means the Secular government for people.
Worst enemy to democracy and freedom is when the very strict religious law becomes actual civil law. In keeping consistent with the Protestant idea, the communication is between the God and the ones with faith. No intermediary necessary. So if the religious law is broken, its between the God and the believer. Where the believer asks for forgiveness in his/her prayer, and no one has to know about it.
It has been said by a few philosophers, the Islam and Chritianity share the same God, One and only.
Islam must go thorough rigorous examination the way christianity went, throughout history and must reform to better suite modernity. And the most important, We, the world, can't have "Nation of Islam or Republic of Islam" since that concept violates the sanctity of the separation of Church and State. The civil governments must be secular. Period. Then even the Islam has hope.
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Post by SwordandCompass on Jun 8, 2004 1:18:22 GMT -5
Very good and thoughtful post Kiengi!
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Post by Graeme on Jun 8, 2004 12:21:50 GMT -5
Islam and Christianity do not share the same God. I have read the Quran. There are certain suras that outline Islamic belief compared to Christianity. The trinity is a concept too cerebral for muslims to understand with their one dimensional brains. Lateral thinking is beyond them. In Unity, a sura, it explains in muhammadan "logic" why there cannot be a trinity. Isa son of Mariam or Jesus the Saviour for Christians is explained away in some suras, maybe the House of Imran, it is hard to remember as it has been some time since I read the Quran. The sura, the Cow, is interesting. Mostly the Quran is full of hate to the people of the book, Jews and Christians, for not falling over themselves with delight at the last of the prophets, Muhammad. What arrogance! Islam's god is inimical to Christianity's idea of the trinity and hates the idea that a man, Isa ibn Mariam, is considered a God, afterall he was born of woman and is a ball of clay like all humans. In addition the story of Ibrahim and Ishmael is a total plagarism of the Jewish story of Abraham and Isaac. How can religions have different divine stories involving the same characters.
Just as Christianity is a Jewish heresy, Islam is a heresy of both Judaism and Christianity. It is apostate.
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Post by kiengi on Jun 8, 2004 14:44:41 GMT -5
Of course religion can be quite dominant in any society. And at what point does the religion in society start to show diminishing return in benefits. Obviously, the Islam religion imposses a lot of dedication from its followers and even trying to govern every aspact of peoples life which causes more harm to society. It is more than Islam. Middle eastern countries have other issues with West. But first the reformation of the Islam that better suites to 21st century world will be a good start for them. Is Allah a bad god? compare to Christian god ? What does it takes for the particular religion to take a root in a given society? how about peoples temperment ?
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Batesy
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by Batesy on Jun 9, 2004 8:43:31 GMT -5
I have nothing against Muslims. I think they are all fine people (except for the extremists of course) but then again, there are Christian extremists, Jewish extremists, and extremists in every other religion in the world.
I believe that in some ways, Israel is being too aggressive. They are killing some innocent Palestinians and raiding villages for no reason. However, in other ways, I am sympathetic with Israel for defending itself. While in some ways, they go to far when it comes to defending against suicide bombers, the fact is, the crazy Palestinian religious extremists out there must get the message that they will not win Israel with violence and hatred.
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Post by alex221166 on Jun 9, 2004 9:01:14 GMT -5
I think that it is too easy to judge Israel's actions when:
a) we foreigners haven't been under the threat of urban terrorism
b) when we foreigners haven't had the sword of Arab extremism and of 3 Arab invasions habging over our heads
As such, I completely understand why Israel may occasionally take things to far. On the other hand, at least they don't actiely support the murder and torture of innocent civilians - which is more than what I can say about most Arab countries.
We will always have to get our hands dirty when we deal with shit.
Portuguese history is crowded with Spanish invasions of our territory. Even though we Portuguese all know that Spain couldn't care less about invading Portugal, we will always suspect Spanish intentions. ALWAYS. Even the Portuguese that - like myself - like Spain.
I don't even want to think what goes on the Israeli's minds when they see a Palestinian blowing up a children's bus, but the idea of "carpet bombing" crosses my mind...
Trust me: if any European country had to put up with what Israel is forced to put up, you would see mosques burning and middle eastern immigrants leaving the country.
There are times when the survival of the population takes precedence over liberty and human rights.
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Post by geirr on Jun 11, 2004 2:57:13 GMT -5
I think that it is too easy to judge Israel's actions when: a) we foreigners haven't been under the threat of urban terrorism b) when we foreigners haven't had the sword of Arab extremism and of 3 Arab invasions habging over our heads As such, I completely understand why Israel may occasionally take things to far. On the other hand, at least they don't actiely support the murder and torture of innocent civilians - which is more than what I can say about most Arab countries. We will always have to get our hands dirty when we deal with shit. Portuguese history is crowded with Spanish invasions of our territory. Even though we Portuguese all know that Spain couldn't care less about invading Portugal, we will always suspect Spanish intentions. ALWAYS. Even the Portuguese that - like myself - like Spain. I don't even want to think what goes on the Israeli's minds when they see a Palestinian blowing up a children's bus, but the idea of "carpet bombing" crosses my mind... Trust me: if any European country had to put up with what Israel is forced to put up, you would see mosques burning and middle eastern immigrants leaving the country. There are times when the survival of the population takes precedence over liberty and human rights. The people that have killed more Jews than anyone else were Europeans many of whom called themselves Catholics. "I'm just finishing what Jesus Christ started" guess who said that? If you are suggesting that any Muslim is prepared to strap explosives on themselves and blow up children then you are deluded. Muslim extremists are no different to white extremists or fascist extremists, they are irrational and have no regard for human life. |
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Batesy
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by Batesy on Jun 11, 2004 6:33:49 GMT -5
Of course, Geirr. However, lik other groups of extremists, we cannot judge the majorit of people that come from these groups for many Muslims I have met (if not all) are good people who despise what the Palestinians are doing in Israel.
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Post by alex221166 on Jun 11, 2004 8:41:32 GMT -5
The people that have killed more Jews than anyone else were Europeans many of whom called themselves Catholics. "I'm just finishing what Jesus Christ started" guess who said that? If you are suggesting that any Muslim is prepared to strap explosives on themselves and blow up children then you are deluded. Muslim extremists are no different to white extremists or fascist extremists, they are irrational and have no regard for human life. No, I don't expect that all Muslims will blow themselves up, but what I would like to see (and haven't so far) is to see ONE Muslim clearly condemning what is happening in Sudan, in Palestine (against the Christians who are being expelled by the Muslims), and even what is happening in Israel. I have heard the "moderate" sheikh Munir from the Lisbon mosque trying to explain the suicide bombings by saying that the Palestinians live in misery... Well, sorry, but many Brazilians live in terrible conditions and I don't see them blowing themselves up. The difference is that a) in a Christian country, the population either blames itself or its government for its misfortunes b) in a Muslim country, you ALWAYS have to find a foreign scapegoat - and if it is non-Muslim, so much for the better |
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Post by IfTheLightTakesUs on Jun 12, 2004 15:56:41 GMT -5
Islam and Christianity do not share the same God. I have read the Quran. There are certain suras that outline Islamic belief compared to Christianity. The trinity is a concept too cerebral for muslims to understand with their one dimensional brains. Lateral thinking is beyond them. In Unity, a sura, it explains in muhammadan "logic" why there cannot be a trinity. Isa son of Mariam or Jesus the Saviour for Christians is explained away in some suras, maybe the House of Imran, it is hard to remember as it has been some time since I read the Quran. The sura, the Cow, is interesting. Mostly the Quran is full of hate to the people of the book, Jews and Christians, for not falling over themselves with delight at the last of the prophets, Muhammad. What arrogance! Islam's god is inimical to Christianity's idea of the trinity and hates the idea that a man, Isa ibn Mariam, is considered a God, afterall he was born of woman and is a ball of clay like all humans. In addition the story of Ibrahim and Ishmael is a total plagarism of the Jewish story of Abraham and Isaac. How can religions have different divine stories involving the same characters. Just as Christianity is a Jewish heresy, Islam is a heresy of both Judaism and Christianity. It is apostate. Uh...No. |
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Post by Vitor on Jun 13, 2004 5:25:40 GMT -5
If it's not the same god...If there is only one god... someone is wrong...or everybody is wrong... right?  |
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I've lived in Australia all my life. 
