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Post by Funky Kong on Feb 2, 2006 13:21:26 GMT -5
This is pretty shitty, and is good fuel for the right wingers here, they've begun sending around mobile phone messages that advocate boycotting all Muslim businesses here, and Danish nationalist websites have gotten a member boost and so on. There was also supposed to be a rally in front of the town hall of Copenhagen, where nationalist Danes were supposed to burn Korans, but it luckily didn't happen. Those cartoonists forgot that Muhammad was a redhead.  Oh, Yankel, i used the same avatar you have when i started here. |
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Post by Igu on Feb 2, 2006 18:37:17 GMT -5
Those cartoonists forgot that Muhammad was a redhead. Muhammad was not naturally redheaded, he used henna. |
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Post by wadad on Feb 2, 2006 21:54:38 GMT -5
What makes the Offended think that our values should not prevail and therefore ignore the Offense? Welcome to 2006. It should be elementally clear that Mercy does not preceed Culture. When all Myths are charted we will only begin to catch a glimpse of the human condition. The West will not fear reprisal for asserting itself within its dominions. It's called having the courage of your convictions. Sure, be courageous and brave when the task is choosing to slander a Symbol another culture holds dear. Laical Europe don't widley see religious symbols as sacred anymore, or maybe they can be sacred only on individual basis, but its different in the Muslim world. The cartoons are ugly, not just because of depicting Prophet Mohammed but because of the meaning of some of them. And this European solidarity behind freedom of press to me seems hypocritical and a low-class taunt. After all, Public denial of the Holocaust is a criminal offence in Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, France, Germany, Israel, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Slovakia and Switzerland, and is punishable by fines and even jail sentences. People have been imprisoned and fined for voicing their opinions... If you ask me those cartoons were pretty poor generalizations but of course I defend freedom of speech. The cartoonists IMO dont deserve to be defended, the principle (freedom of speech) MUST be defended. Then, conversely you wont have a problem with Muslims burning the Danish flag for example...Why should a danish newspaper have the right to publish caricatures of Mohammed while muslims cannot burn danish flags? I say, let them burn flags. Who cares? It's not like there are symbols who can be attacked and symbols that cannot. I mean, if you're going to defend the freedom of speech even when people are desecrating others symbols (and i agree) then you cannot moan because the others desecrate one of your symbols. Something which is valid for the flag burners also. And if caricaturizing Mohammed is an expression of freedom then it is also caricaturizing and making fun of Jesus or the Holocaust or 9/11 (choose your dearest symbol to get what I mean). |
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Post by Yankel on Feb 2, 2006 22:31:23 GMT -5
Really? I was careful not to use the Sheik Yerbouti cover because I know that's your current avatar. I didn't realize you had used the one I have now.
What's your favorite Zappa album?
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Post by annienormanna on Feb 2, 2006 22:58:01 GMT -5
And if caricaturizing Mohammed is an expression of freedom then it is also caricaturizing and making fun of Jesus or the Holocaust or 9/11 (choose your dearest symbol to get what I mean). Oh. It all is. There is such a thing as Holocaust pornography. But the difference that I have garnered, being a child of The West, is that people have to curb themselves. The best part of Free Speech is that it always reveals who is who. But from the street to governments the more important question is what are you going to do about it? This also reveals who is who. Some people laugh at or cheer for the most heinous of things. I am always ready to face my fears. And face the horrors that their hearts console. Burn flags, jump up and down, scream, trample each other. All these people are loaded *FOR* hate. I will not live in a society where I can't tell if they're coming for me. Feelings get hurt. We all learn that one first. When do we grow up? For men,it seems to come sometime after they draw their first "naughty" picture. See, I'm one of those decadent people that thinks you can burn anything you want. Until it causes harm. And if you see ugliness, you deal with *that* as well. If anyone can't do that, then they shouldn't be a part those who can. |
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brazen
Junior Member
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Post by brazen on Feb 2, 2006 23:47:00 GMT -5
f*ck the Muslims, free speech is more important than their shitty backwards third world cave man religion. I hope the European goverments don't apologize, and I hope even more news papers in Europe print the cartoons. I think they should make T-shirts with the cartoons on them, and give one to everybody in Denmark. I think they should put up billboards all over Europe with these cartoons on them, I think they should hang up posters in every public building with these cartoons on them, I think they should paint Murals of these cartoons in every European city.
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Post by Funky Kong on Feb 3, 2006 1:42:15 GMT -5
That's a tough one, taking the massive discography into consideration...
I'd say some of the Mothers stuff, Burnt Weeny Sandwich or Freak Out. You?
This Muhammad thing is of course a matter of free speech, but when a Danish magazine publishes such images while Denmark is participating in the Iraq war, it can only be perceived in a very negative way by Muslims, and the publishers should had thought about that.
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Post by nordicyouth on Feb 3, 2006 2:41:37 GMT -5
If Muslims boycott European products, Europeans should boycott Muslim refugees. Economic action for economic action, I'm sure the Old Testament would agree with me on this one...
Muslims are offended by everything, but reserve the right to suck off European social services (before emigrating to North America for job opportunities), criticize Western dress, insult and assault Western women, murder their own women, etc...
Oh well...I hope this is all worth it when Europeans deliver a backlash. Already, Conservatism (already strong in the East) is turning over social democratic governments all over the E.U.
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Post by ndrthl on Feb 3, 2006 5:34:45 GMT -5
Look at this text (http://www.alghurabaa.co.uk/articles/new/cartoon.htm) Kill those who insult the Prophet Muhammad The kuffar in their sustained crusade against Islam and Muslims have yet again displayed their hatred towards us this time by attacking the honour of our beloved Messenger Muhammad (saw). In September 2005 the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten published 10 cartoons depicting the prophet Muhammad (saw) which were later republished by a Norwegian paper Magazinet. Until now both governments have refused to denounce the drawings and to condemn the publication of them. Denmark has a history of blasphemy against Islam, only in August did radio presenter Kaj Wilhelmsen say that all fanatical Muslims should be exterminated and the rest should be kicked out of Europe. Last year the queen of Denmark aired her disapproval of Islam and for those ‘whom religion is their entire life’. Prior to this the Danish government issued the right to dismiss a Muslim woman from working in a supermarket for wearing the hijab. Furthermore Denmark is an ally of the war in Iraq with 500 troops stationed in the South and 10 from Norway showing their approval and participation of the war. Both governments claim that one of their underlying principles is the freedom of speech and that everyone is free to speak their mind and to voice their opinions openly. They claim that the publication of these cartoons is a mere expression of ones opinions falling within the framework of the law. This is the same freedom of expression that quite readily prevents the propagation of Islam and support of the mujahideen using it as and when it suits them. This should come as no surprise to the Muslims because this is the exact and true nature of the kuffar that Allah (swt) has informed us of in the Quran. The kuffar will never have respect for our deen, they will never honour it and will always seek to ridicule and disparage it. At every opportunity they will try to attack and belittle it whilst concealing the greater hatred they have for it in their hearts. This is also evident throughout the history of Islam where the kuffar carried out similar acts to try and defame Islam. Allah (swt) tells us that; verily, the Kaafireen [disbelievers] are ever unto you your open enemies. [4:101] At the time of the Messenger Muhammad (saw) there were individuals like these who dishonoured and insulted him upon whom the Islamic judgement was executed. Such people were not tolerated in the past and throughout the history of Islam were dealt with according to the Shariah. Ka’ab ibn Ashraf was assassinated by Muhammad ibn Maslamah for harming the Messenger Muhammad (saw) by his words, Abu Raafi’ was killed by Abu Ateeq as the Messenger ordered in the most evil of ways for swearing at the prophet, Khalid bin Sufyaan was killed by Abdullah bin Anees who cut off his head and brought it to the prophet for harming the Messenger Muhammad (saw) by his insults, Al-Asmaa bintu Marwaan was killed by Umayr bin Adi’ al-Khatmi, a blind man, for writing poetry against the prophet and insulting him in it, Al-Aswad al-Ansi was killed by Fairuz al-Daylami and his family for insulting the Messenger Muhammad (saw) and claiming to be a prophet himself. This is the judgement of Islam upon those who violate, dishonour and insult the Messenger Muhammad (saw). Shortly after these incidents the people began to realise that insulting the Messenger of Allah (saw) was not something to be taken lightly and that by doing so would mean that you would be killed for it, a concept that many have seem to forgotten today. The insulting of the Messenger Muhammad (saw) is something that the Muslims cannot and will not tolerate and the punishment in Islam for the one who does so is death. This is the sunnah of the prophet and the verdict of Islam upon such people, one that any Muslim is able execute. The response of the Muslims all over the world shows us the inability to deal with such people, the kuffar are attacking our Messenger and are allowed to get away with it whilst the Muslims have no power to do anything about it. The leaders of the Muslim world have no care for the deen of Islam as they are busy cementing their seats content with their power and wealth. Where are the Muhammad ibn Maslamah’s of our ummah who will defend the honour of our beloved Messenger and rise the banner of Tawheed high? But if they violate their oaths after their covenant, and attack your religion with disapproval and criticism then fight (you) the leaders of disbelief - for surely their oaths are nothing to them - so that they may stop (evil actions). [9:12] www.alghurabaa.co.uk/articles/new/cartoon.htm |
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Post by eufrenio on Feb 3, 2006 6:46:53 GMT -5
How typical that the same Palestinians who were menacing the EU get all their fundings for their pitiable Palestinian Authority from those they threaten (EU).
Begbie is right: who cares what Muslims think? If they don´t like it here they can pack for Saudi Arabia.
Yes, the cartoons were tasteless, but then so is almost everything that comes from Muslim lands.
The Western World could survive a boycott from Muslims but not vice-versa.
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Post by jam on Feb 3, 2006 7:25:29 GMT -5
Just one thing:
Muslim rules does not apply to non-muslims.
That said, I nearly agree with Wadad:
some of the drawings was in pretty bad taste, but there's notrhing we can do about that.
Why aren't any local muslims trying it out in court?
Sure's a better response than flag burning.
Ps. and trying to force our prime minister to apologize, even though he has nothing to do with the drawings, and neither have the general Danish population.
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Post by annienormanna on Feb 3, 2006 11:47:13 GMT -5
If Muslims boycott European products, Europeans should boycott Muslim refugees. Economic action for economic action, I'm sure the Old Testament would agree with me on this one... Muslims are offended by everything, but reserve the right to suck off European social services (before emigrating to North America for job opportunities), criticize Western dress, insult and assault Western women, murder their own women, etc... I will not be made over in their image. Nor will anyone I know. You can wrap anything in the fine frosted taste of religious belief. But there is something caled the law. If their god invokes crime then they will be criminals. And dealt with. If that doesn't solve the problem, expel them. There are, however, many who do realize the reality of the situation and conform by integrating tolerance into their belief systems. In that way, they become us. |
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Post by syriano on Feb 3, 2006 13:13:40 GMT -5
forget about the reactions of some people.
what's the purpose of these cartoons?
I mean it's like someone is calling your mom a fat whoe and you are expected to laugh about it
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Post by annienormanna on Feb 3, 2006 13:44:55 GMT -5
forget about the reactions of some people. what's the purpose of these cartoons? I mean it's like someone is calling your mom a fat whoe and you are expected to laugh about it Or ignore it. Besides, some Moms are fat whoes ;D No really, I don't know the purpose, the intent. I've seen the BBC boards. I think it's very important that if you are hurt by what these people did then demand proof of respect. Is a riot necessary? I don't know. There were riots in Los Angeles about fifteen years ago because people were angry over the court trial of police officers . Violence and destruction ensued. Here is the irony that caught my eye. The violence led to looting even though the bulk of the protesters were located in a Civic Plaza. All they had to do was tear down City Hall and Police Headquarters. City Hall and Police Headquarters remained untouched even though no one could have stopped them from doing it. And the looters were primarily of a third group who had no immediate stake in the trial of the police officers. Sometimes stupidity is just stupidity. Perhaps some Europeans will adress these cartoons as stupidity. Just because someone or some organization says or does something doesn't mean it's official. It has nothing to do with the People or the Government other than the fact it is a person or organization making their *own* representation in the first instance. But if someone's going to cause real, physical harm they ought to be stopped by every means available. |
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Post by annienormanna on Feb 3, 2006 13:53:21 GMT -5
This Muhammad thing is of course a matter of free speech, but when a Danish magazine publishes such images while Denmark is participating in the Iraq war, it can only be perceived in a very negative way by Muslims, and the publishers should had thought about that. Maybe they did and laughed without malice  And stop F*k*ng with the Jesus! Nobody f*k with the Jesus, man. Jesus from "The Big Lebowski" |
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